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i have this long term project I've been slowly thinking about for years to figure out how to help folks get more comfortable on the unix command line.
I have this sense that there are a lot of people who have been using the command line for 5-20 years but still don't really feel at home there
(not looking for advice, it's just something I'm thinking about)
some related posts:
https://jvns.ca/blog/2023/08/08/what-helps-people-get-comfortable-on-the-command-line-/
https://jvns.ca/blog/2022/04/12/a-list-of-new-ish--command-line-tools/
@b0rk Could you elaborate what you mean by „don‘t really feel at home“?
Also this projects sounds like a fantastic idea.
@DerMolly i think this reddit comment is a good example of someone speaking from that perspective https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/luk6zk/why_does_the_cli_scare_people/gp6xsdq/
I think this reddit comment hit it right on the money.
On reflection I honestly don't have any *good* advice for that redditor - and I spend my whole day in the terminal.
New (ie: generally better designed) tools _help_; but don't really alleviate the problem completely.
It reminds me of "gamers" when they say "just get good" - it's infuriating to hear until you, yourself, have also gotten good
@yaeunerd @DerMolly something i think a lot about a lot is how even though the unix command line is mostly the same as it was in the 90s the context of how most people use it and learn it has changed a LOT.
for example I learned the command line in the 2000s through a very "install arch linux and suffer” approach which (while it was very effective for me and I had fun doing it) definitely isn't for everyone
@simon @b0rk @yaeunerd Never worked with Powershell yet, but does that really solve the names problems? This sounds - to me atleast - like a different shell, but this would do nothing to discover relevant programs e.g. Or teach the user how to use programs to do stuff. Or am I missing something obvious?
@DerMolly @b0rk @yaeunerd I think one difference is the base commands are actually named after what they do. For example, instead of mv you have Move-Item, instead of rm you have Remove-Item, you get the size of a file with Measure-Object, echo is Write-Output. Though I think in all of those cases except getting the size the standard unix version also works.
https://www.comparitech.com/net-admin/powershell-cheat-sheet/
> the unix command line is mostly the same as it was in the 90s the context of how most people use it and learn it has changed a LOT.
I agree with both.
I remember one of my university teachers telling us that "Back in the old days computer scientists used to be serious people, a few of them would sometimes go to work in lab-coats."
I don't think we'll ever get rid of the "suffering" that you described - and to me that's like kind of OK? Not ideal, but OK
[...]
[...]
I'll never wear a lab-coat to work, those days are gone.
But I kind of respect that the CLI remains a "tool for serious work" first and foremost.
I'm veering close into the "advice" territory, but to me a change of mindset is the correct approach - the CLI is hard but once you "get good" you'll really take advantage of it.
Kind of like learning an instrument as a kid.