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Registration for PyCon US 2024 is now open. I registered and will be there from Thursday to Sunday.

My trip this year will be shorter than normal because the ridiculous mask policy put in place by @ThePSF.

Still looking forward to seeing you all there. :)

@ThePSF Ridiculous mask policy:

We are asking you to wear a mask during your time at PyCon US. […] Attendees who are repeatedly unwilling to comply with the mask requirements will be asked to leave and are not eligible for a refund.

That sounds like telling, not asking, nor consistent with 2024 norms.

us.pycon.org/2024/about/health

us.pycon.org- Health & Safety Guidelines - PyCon US 2024

@mkennedy @ThePSF I agree. That part is poorly written. They should revise this copy to be more respectful of attendees instead of whatever dense copy that is.

@webology @ThePSF Hey Jeff. It is pretty condescending. “We’re all are nice people…” and so on. But my concern is more twofold:

1. How much will a super aggressive mask policy limit attendance (rather than: we encourage and support you wearing a mask if you want - after all, if it’s what most people want, they’d mostly be wearing masks anyway, right?)

2. Taking away from the networking side, which is personally why I go at all rather than just watching on YouTube.

@mkennedy @ThePSF I don't know anyone who likes masks, but I'm not going to avoid events in 2024 because they do or do not require masks.

We required them for DjangoCon US. I helped with PyCon's policy in previous years (when I was on the board and committee) and I'm for conference organizers setting standards that they are comfortable with.

I also think it's fair and appropriate to get community feedback on these policies.

@mkennedy @ThePSF

I hope to see you there too. I'm 90% sure I'm going, but it's not quite a given yet.

@mkennedy @ThePSF I personally prioritize testing over what I'm seeing here. I made that case last year and it was effective for DCUS this year.

I was a little eye-rolly at the photo exception. I personally don't care if people take photos with or without masks on, but it feels very hand-wavey to allow that exception when trying to mandate "health and safety" policies.

As far as networking goes, half of pycon is at the event and other half is around the event.

@webology @ThePSF That’s my plan is to spend a few hours at the conference and then join the events afterwards. I’d be totally happy with testing. I also done mind vaccine mandates having just recently gotten my 6th covid shot.

@webology @mkennedy @ThePSF Also Covid is increasing in various parts of the world. We know that PyCon US brings in friends from all across.

@kushal @webology @mkennedy @ThePSF What good is it if you're practically the only one in the world?
I also wonder, if you're immuno compromised, does that mean it applies to Covid only? Or are we trying to include people that wouldn't come anyway as a normal flu is just as dangerous to them too?

@webology
100% disagree. The PyCon US mask policy and the linked explanation is thoughtful and is a reason many people attend.

The entire reason is clearly right up there at the top: "We want PyCon US to be an event that everyone feels safe attending."

"The norm" is the lowest bar in the world, never an achievement to aim for.

@mkennedy @ThePSF

@gpshead @webology @ThePSF Hi Gregory. I think I’ve laid out a lot of why I feel this way in the thread here so not a good idea to rehash it. I imagine we’ll have to agree to disagree.

However, it was not 100% safe before COVID. You could get the flu and die. You could catch some other non-COVID thing. It shouldn’t be about what can we do to make it 100% safe (it won’t be and wasn’t), it’s what is a reasonable level of defense vs. other tradeoffs in 2024.

+1. I wouldn't even consider attending in person if it weren't for the policy, which is stated politely but firmly.

Michael did say it correctly: this policy is telling, not asking. IMO, that's how a safety policy should be, lest it become pointlessly optional.

As I recall, previous events had a 3-strike rule and ejected members could still participate online. If that still applies, mentioning them here would make sense to me as a clarification/softening.

@gpshead @webology @mkennedy @ThePSF

@SnoopJ @gpshead @webology @mkennedy @ThePSF Very few places have this policy anymore. Do you leave your home? I’m curious how this stance gets reconciled with, say, going to the mall or the grocery store or the movie theatre.

@SnoopJ @gpshead @webology @mkennedy @ThePSF What about the plane and the public transit to get to and from? Will you leave the conference to eat in your hotel room? Does the virus go away when people briefly take photographs? Like. It takes about 20 seconds of critical thought to poke countless holes in this performative posturing.

@jamwil I will answer your questions with as much patience as *your* performance has left me with:

Yes, I will mask during transit, as I always do.

No, I will probably eat at the conference.

No, the virus does not go away during photo opportunities. I would say that drawing a direct equivalence between a few seconds worth of exposure and several hours is well across the line into obstinate foolishness.

@SnoopJ To be clear, I completely respect your choice to wear a mask. I’m talking about the demand that all others do. And I’m challenging that because pycon are the only ~5 days out of the 365 on the calendar where folks seem to take such a firm stance on the issue.

@jamwil I wish I could believe that you respect it, but frankly, I do not.

@SnoopJ Well I didn’t say anything about you wearing a mask, we are talking about the mask *policy*, so believe what you like, it doesn’t make it so.

They’re two quite separate things.

@jamwil @SnoopJ @gpshead @webology @mkennedy @ThePSF I don't go to the movie theater any more. I probably never will. I will probably leave the conference to eat at least outdoors, and I wish they didn't have an exception for eating indoors. (I have not eaten indoors in public since March 2020, and I probably never will.)

I'm sorry you don't think there are members of the Python community who live our lives like this. Maybe if we keep staying home you can keep pretending we don't exist?

@jamwil Yes, I do leave my home, and when my destination is a place where other people are gathered indoors, I generally bring a mask with me and I wear it.

100% of the time? Well, no. But in a large crowd of people who have almost all engaged in cross-country travel immediately beforehand? I would not personally feel safe doing anything less.

I get that other people feel differently, but I appreciate that PyCon US is making space for people like me.

@gpshead @webology @mkennedy @ThePSF

@SnoopJ @jamwil @gpshead @webology @ThePSF I hear you man. Here’s my perspective:

I’ve had 6 (six!) covid vaccines. I have had covid twice even though I wore my mask almost 100% of the time in public, even when visiting friends. What does that make it, 8 “vaccinations”?

At some point you have to ask if you intend to live the rest of your life like this.

We don’t act that way about the flu even though we hate it. So why covid?

@mkennedy I am happy to go into detail about my personal beliefs about infectious disease (short version: yea, I kinda do expect disease management to be a consistent feature of the rest of my life)

However, if the broader rhetorical arc here is aimed at "by why does PyCon US maintain this policy", I would ask that you direct those questions to @ThePSF and @PyConUS

I passionately support the decision to maintain the policy (and can explain why if you'd like), but I did not personally make it.

@SnoopJ @jamwil @gpshead @webology @ThePSF This has been quite the wandering thread. I did originally direct my comments at the @ThePSF and only them. Just people jumping in part way through may have obscured that.

Specifically I wrote: “My trip this year will be shorter than normal because the ridiculous mask policy put in place by @ThePSF.

I know you didn't write it or bear any responsibility and were just commenting. :)

@mkennedy @SnoopJ @jamwil @gpshead @webology @ThePSF I absolutely intend to live the rest of my life like this!

The mask policy is why PyCon US 2024 will (hopefully) be my first conference since 2019. It may well be that I never attend a conference other than PyCon US for the rest of my life. There are plenty of other conferences YOU can attend with weaker mask policies. I'd like to attend just one.

@geofft @SnoopJ @jamwil @gpshead @webology @ThePSF Hey that’s your prerogative. I will attend a variety of conferences and have a good time doing it. I was just at Microsoft ignite, 6,000 attendees and no masks. I’ll be at pycon in may with masks.

@gpshead @mkennedy @ThePSF The overall policy is fine by me, as I stated later in the thread. I think it's dated. Having helped write the original and having contributed to previous versions, I state that upfront.

The PSF (larger groups in general) sometimes have a tone issue. When you support the policy, read a section, and wonder why we are stating something in that tone, it's fair to call out.

If you want to debate masking, take that up with Michael 🤷

@gpshead @webology @mkennedy @ThePSF It’s *much* harder to give a talk while masked than it is to attend a talk while masked. Attendees wearing masks makes it much safer for speakers to unmask, making speaking possible/much easier for people like me (compromised lungs). Even if masks were only required during talks it would make an *enormous* difference to my and others’ ability to be a speaker.

@LauraLangdon @gpshead @webology @ThePSF That’s a fair point. I did suggest that a better compromise would be to have areas that have stronger mask policies and areas that have lighter ones. For example, having masks while attending talks bunched together but having the expo floor encouraged but optional for masks would be an excellent comprise.

But that’s not the policy. The policy is 100% masks, 100% of the time, or you’re unwelcome.

@LauraLangdon @gpshead @webology @ThePSF We could do the same for open spaces. Put a mask symbol on it if it’s required, or a skull and crossbones if it’s mask option and attendees could decide per the organizer’s desires, etc.

@LauraLangdon @gpshead @webology @ThePSF But the PSF has ridiculous statements like:

“We will be guided by science and adapt our policy accordingly”

and

“We will never loosen the policy, that’s our guarantee”

But what if science says the emergency is over? We have vaccines and they are working? Not necessarily saying that’s the case. But those two sentences in the same policy are not congruent.

@mkennedy @gpshead @webology @ThePSF I understood the guarantee not to loosen the policy not to refer to future PyCons necessarily but to this one, because some cons have set mask policies and then removed them at the last minute, after people had bought tickets and so on.

@LauraLangdon @gpshead @webology @ThePSF That’s my understanding too. But I think it’s still inconsistent given the planning is over a year out. Can you really predict the situation that far out when it’s an unprecedented event?

A better policy there would be “We will listen to science. The current policy is masks required. But if that changes, we guarantee to give 100% refunds to anyone uncomfortable with the final policy.”

@mkennedy @LauraLangdon @gpshead @webology

Thanks for all the comments and thoughtfulness. We know many people largely aren't masking anymore and that it can be a social impediment. We have committed for this year to masking, and we won't change that, for the reasons mentioned about not wanting to do a “bait and switch” with the policy for people who make plans to attend based on the policy in place when they registered/paid for travel/submitted their CFP proposals. (1/2)

@mkennedy @LauraLangdon @gpshead @webology

That said, we'll continue assessing the situation (air flow, testing feasibility, etc) and also tracking feedback, and we'll see if testing, or masking just in talks rooms, or other changes make sense for next year.

Thanks for registering & sharing the event, and we're looking forward to seeing you there.

(2/2)

@ThePSF @LauraLangdon @gpshead @webology Thanks for the thoughts and the feedback. Here’s one more from me for the future:

I think better than masks would be a very strong testing mandate.

* Charge + $10 for all tickets to cover kits.
* Have a waiting room where you take the test as you enter the conference
* Wait 15 minutes for verification
* Get a “safe” wrist band for the conference

Then let the people network, speak, and enjoy each other.

@mkennedy @LauraLangdon @gpshead @webology Thank you Michael! That suggestion is noted and appreciated (and definitely will be in the menu of options we consider for next year's policy.)

@mkennedy @gpshead @webology @ThePSF Your compromise suggestion seems totally reasonable to me, though I think having different rules for different spaces would almost certainly result in more confrontations and require much more effort for enforcement.

@LauraLangdon @gpshead @webology @ThePSF I think most people in the Python community are very kind and thoughtful. I wouldn’t expect a LOT more enforcement needed (although maybe some).

I plan on following the guidelines even though I clearly disagree with them. That’s the policy and I bought a ticket so that’s an implicit agreement. I just think longterm, the PSF needs to seriously rethink their “100% masks forever no matter what” policy.

@mkennedy @ThePSF

It has been quite rare to see anybody he wearing a mask (except in medical buildings) in my area for something like two years.

I'm definitely less likely to attend under the mandated masking in policy.

@chrism @ThePSF Same here in terms of mask wearing and willingness to attend. This year I decided to go but for a shortened time. Let’s hope reason returns for 2025.