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@mariatta@fosstodon.orgFolks don't understand how open source contributions work. If you want a feature, you don't come and say "make me this feature". Instead, you open a PR and ask for it to get merged.
Folks don't understand how community conferences work. If you want something to happen in the conference, you don't come and say "make this happen for me". Instead, you say "I want to volunteer and do this for your conference".
If you can't volunteer at your community conference, then you should say this instead "Here's $$$$ so you can hire people to make this happen for me"
@mariatta Sorry, as an open source maintainer myself I can't say I entirely agree with your statement.
I understand the sentiment, but telling users: "don't ask for features, just create a PR" completely bypasses the fact that not everyone is *able* to create a PR. (for whatever reason)
If you'd have said something like
"don't *demand* a feature" or
"*ask* for a feature with expecting anything"..
Sure! 100%! 
@chaosmonkey @mariatta it's actually, if you want a feature, hire a developer (who might be the original author) to create a PR.
@chaosmonkey @mariatta depends on the kind of software. Linux desktop apps are pretty difficult to attract funds. Specialized service software has usually companies interested in their development.
@mariatta What happens if you don't have the skills to implement x or y yourself?
@JustinMac84 @mariatta same as offering other resources such as time, infrastructure, facilities, etc. The only thing you’re entitled to is using the software and having access to the source.
@JustinMac84 @mariatta Or if the project had no interest in the feature from the start and you worked for nothing.
I'd open a feature request for discussion and volunteer to work on it, and only then start working.
@JustinMac84 @mariatta pay someone to develop it
@mariatta polite, unentitled feature requests are useful for open source projects. It's valuable feedback.
@mariatta Some of us are not programmers but can do quality assurance testing and write, hopefully good, issues.
@mariatta I get your point but also, I don't think we can assume that everyone can code a feature into a project they never contributed to. Of course, the way the feature is requested matters a lot, but I think we should value all kinds of contributions in open source projects, including the users who open a well-defined and respectfully-worded feature request. Who knows, maybe the developers never even thought of it and appreciate the new idea.
@stragu @mariatta How things are worded is *extremely* important. At times I get requests which basically state: "Dude, I don't see XYZ feature. How come, this is such a glaring oversight. Also, I would really need this by Monday."
At that point I state that I can make this happen, and give them an estimated consulting fee for the required work. This often ends the urgency of the request.
@mariatta@fosstodon.org I agree with most of this; however, I also appreciate feature requests as long as they are not demanding. Using the phrasing "make this for me" is absolutely unacceptable but when people are respectful it does good to know what the community wants
@mariatta@fosstodon.org they also have to understand we triage feature requests and may not get to it right away.
@mariatta Three very important words for anyone with a suggestion:
"You should do that."
@mariatta “Make this happen for me”. You just described every post in product subreddits.
Not everyone know what a PR is or has the technical skills to make one.
Whilst I agree with the overall sentiment of "don't demand" I do think some open source comminuted are unfriendly to normal people who have no reason to know what git is.
@mariatta as someone who has literally done that and been turned away, it's way more than that. Not all PRs or Features are welcome.
If you want something from OSS, you have to work with the maintainers and see what they need. Money is primary. Time, organization, testing and code are all ways to contribute. But none them are universal.
It all starts with "how can I make this happen"?
And I don't think that's a conversation most people are used to having. Both requesters and maintainers.
@mariatta I mean, not all of us can code. Most people asking for a thing are asking because they can't just do it. If they could they probably would have already opened that PR, not asked.
It's not unreasonable to ask or make a suggestion. It's unreasonable to demand or ask too much. Devs do listen! I've seen reasonable suggestions get implemented many times. I've had a few times I even directly worked with a dev to test stuff as they tried to implement things. That's the thing us end users can do and, if asked, I'm generally going to say yes.
It's unfair to say that if you can't do it yourself you have no right to wish for a thing to improve.
That said, I agree that people shouldn't act so entitled or demanding as some do. That isn't ok.
@nazokiyoubinbou @mariatta
People have different levels of coding skill, too. I made a PR adding more strings to an array of random puns before, and it got merged... and then the devs refactored the code to pull that data from a plain text file instead, because they realized they wanted people who *didn't* know how to add strings to an array to be able to add more puns too.