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Also I re-read some of my old achievement psych classic papers on performance-avoidance orientation and I was like oh yeah there's a reason when I took my first tech job at a FAANG I was like holy shit this place is a performance-avoidance case study

I wish this area of psych stuff had been picked up more than "psychological safety" I think y'all would've found it more useful

@grimalkina
As someone ignorant on the topic, I’d be curious to hear you play out this thought a bit!

@inthehands @grimalkina I hadn't heard of it either (or at least not that I remembered). But I found this just now, which helped a lot.

edpsych.pressbooks.sunycreate.

@jenniferplusplus

@inthehands @grimalkina

I don't think I could function in a performance oriented organization anymore. I did once, in school. It just sounds so stressful.

Not that the mastery goal doesn't have its own stressors. I can give 110% for a while because I know how to manage myself into it and have learned the skills. Because I really want to make something work and improve. But it costs me too.

@faassen @jenniferplusplus @inthehands indeed -- and I think it's important to consider a dimension where the mastery goal stuff isn't always about "I must become the best" but rather intrinsic motivation and caring about the effort of it, not just the output of it, perhaps that is my personal buddhist philosophy speaking here but I think the research aligns as well. I personally might not have chosen to call this "mastery" if I had named it

@grimalkina @faassen @jenniferplusplus
Yeah, the word “mastery” is similarly problematic in educational philosophy.

@inthehands

@grimalkina @jenniferplusplus

Mastery also implies a summit of skill, whereas there is always more to learn. I think people who are great at something through continuous self motivated application are also often the most aware of what they want to do next that they aren't good at yet, or what they cannot do.

@faassen @inthehands @jenniferplusplus there's something in here for me too about the importance of preserving our curiosity and humility instead of moving into "I'm an expert" mode. We do need that mode in life and many of us earn it. But sometimes it's almost sad when you get really polished at something, right? Think about the joy of beginner's mind and the freedom of exploration. I personally love variety in my work because I simply lose that spark without it. That means always starting over

@grimalkina @faassen @jenniferplusplus
An excerpt from a document I give in one of the intro courses I teach, seems relevant:

Martijn Faassen

@inthehands

@grimalkina @jenniferplusplus

I love this! The idea that confusion is actually a productive state that should be accepted as part of learning is one I embrace. I imagine you wrote this as you have experienced people who are scared by this confusion? Related to fixed/growth mindset.

@faassen @grimalkina @jenniferplusplus
Yes, the earlier paragraphs talk about confusion and frustration at much greater length. And yes it is based on frustrations I’ve observed in students.

I should share the whole thing as a blog post, I suppose.

@inthehands

@grimalkina @jenniferplusplus

That would be very interesting!

There's a lot of talk about imposter syndrome among devs. There's a bit of talk about fixed/growth mindsets.

Here you make it concrete, looking at it from another perspective. How to handle difficulty and feelings when learning, that there is no final end state, and that you can embrace that.