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Recently, multiple I listen to, talked about the issue of "not being nice" to those on Linux who want to use proprietary software.

I think proprietary sw is a problem, especially if you run it on a personal device. However, sometimes it is hard to avoid it.

However, practical concerns should not affect advocacy. We should advocate for the "ideal" world we would like to see, and consider practical solutions as compromises one has to make in a non-ideal world.

@nicemicro I wouldn't actually mind me some proprietary software on Linux. Well, as long as it's containerised property and can't snoop around the system too much.

I think it's the lack of commerce in Linux ecosystem that is keeping the OS back from mass adoption and becoming a norm.

Android is a good example of how powerful could be

@kaievans And Android is also a good example of how much of a spyware infested hellscape it could be.

Your access controls and constraints are worthless if every app you get from the store refuses to work without you giving them access to your location, webcam, etc.

@nicemicro maybe so, but FOSS is also useless at replicating a lot of proprietary software. It's been 20 years, and I have my doubts it will ever happen.

the way I see it, solving the security problem is more approachable by FOSS community, than solving the lack of commercial grade software

@kaievans commercial grade software belongs on corporate machines that are not "personal" devices. As a corporation, you don't have privacy concerns. You might have corporate secrets, but you also probably have lawyers for such contingencies.

If Free Software will be unable to exploit regular people by trying to sell them overpriced "professional" software... we don't lose out on anything.

@nicemicro @kaievans Professional, Industry Standard and alikes are just euphemism for software recommendation.

@colinsmatt11 @nicemicro sure thing, were not talking tautology here though. I'm talking simply about availability of commercial software options

FOSS doesn't even have a decent email/calendar client, let alone any specialised software for media production. Fuck it wouldn't even have a decent code editor if it's not for vs code ;)

And it will never have those because all FOSS cares about is software aka programming. And there is much more involved in making a great product that that

martin has already pointed out the most basic error in your post, but I wonder, what is your gold standard of commercial email/calendar client?

@lxo and that goes back to the main problem with gnu/foss philosophy, it's focus on software.

It's a great approach to produce tech, like Linux kernel for example, but it consistently failing to produce great products. Because great products involve much more than just software

ISTM you've got a twisted pitch. the FS movement is about freedom, not products; nonfree software subjugates you, it's an injustice, so it doesn't belong in civilization. if you don't like what the software you use does, you should be free to improve it, or to fund whoever you trust to do so on your behalf, individually or collectively.
me, I'm very happy with gnus and org-mode in emacs. I was genuinely curious about what you wanted for email and calendaring, but I wouldn't be surprised if you, like most people, had got so used to the human farming environments that you find them more comfortable than user-liberating and -controlled ones
Kai Evans

@lxo Ill try this one time okay. just for the kicks of it.

just go and eyeball the number of success stories between FOSS, permissive OSS, and proprietary OSS projects

don't listen to me, look to the numbers. do you still think that production of the most useful software that advances the "civilisation" as you said, is a function of FOSS licensing?

"FOSS licensing" is not what it's about. most software developed commercially in the world is written for a single customer, that gets source code and full rights, so it's freedom-respecting software. a lot of other software is developed for internal use, thus also freedom-respecting software. neither undergo licensing.
even when it comes to licensed software, every one of the top 500 supercomputers runs GNU/Linux; all of big techs relies on and develops free software for their own operations; nearly all of the largest non-IT companies use and prefer free software. all of them realize and pursue the benefits afforded by software freedom.
nonfree software is mostly relegated to suckers and losers, such as small businesses and individual computer users, who are trained and driven into dependence on nonfree software for benefit of software providers, surveillance capitalism and whatnot. let's not be ridiculous by suggesting that people prefer to be spied on, imposed misfeatures, denied desirable features, and forced into monopolies.

@lxo yeah, right. While you're busy still fapping on supercomputers like it's 1999, proprietary software runs on billions of devices and powers the bulk of the economy

And don't give the whole Linux everyone nonsense.

at last we agree on something: the majority of (exploited) users run nonfree software and that powers the (exploitation) economy. we don't agree on whether that's a good thing, though.

now, you don't seem to be debating in good faith. it gets tiring after a while. have a good life. I hope you find peace and freedom for yourself, for everyone you love, and for everyone you hate too.