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This is fine:
I want to say whatever I want! I don't want to have to consider other people! (But then I must accept that other people might leave).
Also fine:I don't want other people to leave! (But then I must consider how my words and actions affect others).
Not OK:You just have to take it!
This isn't complicated.
I feel like a lot of folk, usually people with privilege, have an underdeveloped sense of empathy, and a dangerously incomplete knowledge of the concept of consent.
They want "free speech" for themselves, but not "freedom to choose not to listen" for others.
Which is how we wind up with weird inconsistencies like:
"The people who bleat the loudest about free speech... are the very same people that think that you shouldn't be able to block."
What they really mean is "I can say whatever I want, and you just have to take it."
I don't have to take anything.
I don't even have to debate you or fight you. If you talk out of pocket, I can just walk away.
This isn't some "Just ignore them!" Or "Turn the other cheek!" nonsense.
This is "I can choose to be in places specifically where you are not. Reclaiming my time."
@mekkaokereke I always imagine these guys coming up to strangers in a bar just having a conversation and yelling some of their nonsense at them.
Of course the people would be totally free to leave the bar, but they probably wouldn’t have to. Some big dude being paid to remove problems would come and remove the problem. Bodily, if need be.
But maybe these guys have never really gone out in the world to know that.
@Jackiemauro @mekkaokereke i think this highlights the problem: conflict between what social media actually is & what a lot of (most?) people actually want.
We need totally different models of for social media, rather than hoping that changes could lead to a better experience.
People who want semi-private spaces with implicit conventions (e.g the bar) are not going to get it from any current social media platforms, because they are not designed to be that. Behavior/moderation can't fix this.
@PaulDavisTheFirst Don’t Discord or Signal fit the semi-private bar option?
@edgeworth I have corporatist issues with Discord, so although functionally speaking it may work in roughly the right way, I couldn't really consider it appropriate.
Signal seems as if it belongs in the same constellation as WhatsApp, Telegram and even basic SMS. The fact that you create groups does lend it an air of "social media", and in the sense that it's not that far from Ye Olde listservs, does make it somewhere in the right ballpark.
Discoverability though ... seems like a problem.
@PaulDavisTheFirst @edgeworth I agree with your semi-private or even private social spaces, not everyone wants things to be completely open. hometown with its local posting comes to mind. discoverability would be purely social no? one friend invites the other friend and this circle would need to be maintained. honestly wish I could host a single instance and have groups of friends I could choose to post to, I think google+ used to work this way?
@theraspb @edgeworth discovery via existing contacts only works for groups that either (a) geographically centered (b) online replication of existing friend networks. both are important, but it doesn't work if you're look for a community of interest.
the issue with "single instance + groups of friends" is that most of us exist in multiple contexts, some of which may be antagonistic to the others ... federation doesn't really model that very well.
@PaulDavisTheFirst @edgeworth true! I guess I was more thinking social groups for my use case (family and friends that id be managing an instance for anyway) but these are good points and id like to see something like this as well. social can be quite hard to build around hey
@theraspb to be clear, i have no idea how it should work or be
i just see the anguished howls from people having experiences on social media that they did not expect or want but that to me seem inevitable given its current design
i wish i had a better idea. "wanting to be in a community of people i didn't know before i found them online" seems to me inescapably risky (yet can work)
Nevertheless, people want to be able to do that with a greater sense of safety. Is it even possible? Not sure
@PaulDavisTheFirst @Jackiemauro @mekkaokereke for semi private there was a time where good old phpBB largely filled that niche
@Jackiemauro @mekkaokereke ...and now, these guys have metaphorically bought the bar and sacked the big dude, to not be blocked anymore from yelling their nonsense.
(see: what is currently unfolding wrt moderation on commercial platforms).
And are complaigning that as a consequence of the change of owner, some patrons decided to go to a different bar.