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Brendan Jones

The rise of Mastodon has made me so much more aware of government services requiring us to use private companies’ systems to communicate with them and access services.

Sitting on a Dutch train just now I was shown on a screen “feeling unsafe in the train? Contact us via WhatsApp”.

What if I don’t use WhatsApp? (I do, but I wish I didn’t have to) I’m forced to share my data with Meta to use it.

Public systems should not require use of private services.

@Brendanjones The only way I can get emergency information in my small town is through Facebook. I don't have an account so half the time I'm trying to find out why power is out or whatever I'm blocked by a login screen.

@ater @Brendanjones In Canada Facebook won't let us share news stories (because they don't want to pay our government for the rights to use articles). This has lead to problems during crises such as wildfires where people need info on safe places, etc.. Traditionally Facebook was one of the places a lot of people turned to for emergency updates and general info.

@AskPippa @ater @Brendanjones Are you aware of any projects/products out there specifically as, perhaps, "social media for Canadians dealing with natural disasters"? Just curious...

@gkcan @AskPippa @ater @Brendanjones

Mastodon?

You know, where anyone can publish and you can follow the feeds that are relevant to you.

Thing is, I wouldn't do such a project a different way. For most people, natural disasters are a rare occurrence. The whole purpose of using existing networks like FB or Twitter was to escalate those rare occurrences on the channels people are already using. We do the same things with TV and radio.

I don't want more channels, let's use the ones we have.

@gatesvp @gkcan @AskPippa @Brendanjones "We do the same things with TV and radio"

I'm not Canadian so if that's an option, good on you. Not here, though.

@ater @gkcan @AskPippa @Brendanjones

The US has the Emergency Broadcast System
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerge

The EU has an Alert system
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU-Ale

I'm not sure exactly where you live. Most rich world countries have some variant on this.

en.m.wikipedia.orgEmergency Alert System - Wikipedia

@Brendanjones You can bet Meta has lobbied governments to encourage its use within government itself as well as between the public and government.

Microsoft has and does, which is why its apps and document file formats remain the standard in many governments around the globe.

It's surprising where FOSS has supplanted Microsoft that communications haven't uniformly shifted away from monopolistic providers.

@femme_mal @Brendanjones Similar to how Amazon/AWS has the most contracts with the US government (or maybe just defence, IIRC) than any other big-tech company...

@femme_mal @Brendanjones I assume its largely based on "How many people already use platform X", and probably consultants who can sell a easy way to maintain a comms presence on these platforms, Meta has been really good at "improving" the stickiness of its network effect.

@Brendanjones I was looking at once of these NS train display a minute before I saw your toot and, though the WhatsApp default stuck me as weird too, it definitely also mentions sms

@iantriggs congratulations on living in a place where the government runs your telecom

@kingrat @iantriggs and you don't? What's *your* solution? And don't say "revolution".

@wanderingmagus @iantriggs

Allow whatever methods that allow the most people to contact them. Preferably a few. If WhatsApp + SMS get to 95% of the target population, I don't see why not. I'd personally prefer Signal for this sort of thing, but there's like 0.23% of people using it, so it seems kind of dumb to devote a lot of resources for Phil's Ideologically Blessed Methods.

@Brendanjones i travel on NS trains extremely regularly and every screen showing that message that i’ve seen has mentioned that you can contact them over SMS /or/ WhatsApp. i’ve never seen this message without listing SMS as an option. here, WhatsApp is an alternative that many travellers will prefer, not the sole (or even primary) mode of contact.

@thcrt Well this screen only showed WhatsApp. I would have taken a photo but it would have been weird for the person sitting directly below it!

And yes, living in NL I’m well aware of the ubiquity of WhatsApp (“app me” ipv “stuur me een berichtje”, bijvoorbeeld). Doesn’t change the general point.

@Brendanjones I think at the train station the message mentioned SMS as well.

@GromBeestje @Brendanjones Indeed, WhatsApp _of_ SMS is what's printed on all these stickers.

I agree with OP that we shouldn't rely on WhatsApp but NS is doing perfectly fine here.

@mdv @Brendanjones
But if memory serves correctly, it was missing in the past.

@mdv @GromBeestje I’ve also seen it before with SMS as an option. This post wasn’t meant to dunk on NS too much – though I do take issue with them only listing WhatsApp on the train screen I saw – think of the post more as a prop for the general point around access to public services :)

@Brendanjones Also, SMS is kind of broken (if we care about security) for "old" networks (3g and below) beause of how the SS7 system works.

It would be better if they also offered other more secure alternatives. I'm not sure what that would be, though.

@Brendanjones

Last time the SMS number was on display on wall in the train (i didn't use it, i used the online form of dutch police later).

@Brendanjones the stickers on the windows say “WhatsApp of sms naar” 🙂

@Brendanjones To be fair SMS is also routed via private services, using phones from private companies. At some point reality hits and we need to go with the times. I believe diversity in options is what we really want.

@Brendanjones Sadly enough the Dutch railway service is since long not a public service anymore but a private company. But I still fully agree with your statement.

@erikgommer 100% owned by the government, but still. I would completely agree that it should be run by a public agency not a “publicly owned” private company.

@Brendanjones

I'm fine with meeting people where they are, but I think it's important to have a neutral option as well. Would have been nice to see the SMS number on the poster as well, I agree.

@Brendanjones Unless they’ve changed the sticker, I think you misremember. That sticker has always been “WhatsApp of sms naar…”. But still, you make an interesting point.

@wilsn I was literally looking at the screen when I made this post so no, not misremembering. All of the physical stickers I’ve seen do indeed mention SMS.

@Brendanjones Ah, fair enough. To your broader point, I am not sure I have an opinion, but I can imagine the sentiment might be different elsewhere. In places like the US, folk are a lot more distrusting of the government, so a “public” communications option in those minds then appears Orwellian. Or by “public” do you mean something more like what we’re using here, something federated/autonomous?

@wilsn I don’t want to name one service as a solution but I mean more the ability to communicate with a government via an open communication protocol, rather than a WhatsApp replacement that is entirely run by a government.

I guess Matrix is a good example of what I mean. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_(

And as I’ve commented elsewhere, I don’t mind a government then *also* offering communication via WhatsApp or other private services. As long as they offer an equivalent open option.

en.wikipedia.orgMatrix (protocol) - Wikipedia

@Brendanjones Same when they force you to use Twitter for reach them

@PictoPulse356 Thankfully I’ve not seen that recently. Though I do have to say, Twitter was often the fastest way to get action on a problem. I remember multiple times when I wasn’t getting anywhere with customer support (or just didn’t get a reply at all) and a public message to the company meant immediate action.

Of course this is because it was public, and there’s zero reason why Mastodon or another open network can’t replace that ability to publicly call out a company.

@Brendanjones I can not remember exactly an example of that, but there are many public institutions that aim to follow their Twitter to get updates or contact them. If it is public service, they should move to Mastodon. There is no reason to stay on Twitter/Meta platforms only.

@Brendanjones I used to rely on Twitter for that also - it was just so practical. Now when I think about that I'm slightly embarrassed; we should all never have relied on a private service in such a major way.

@Brendanjones I always wonder in these situations about old people, who may not even have smartphones or who might not find them easy to use

@Brendanjones Fully agree. Public systems should at least try to offer a service for communication that is widely compatible. For example a publicly hosted Matrix server with potential bridges to multiple different messenger services.

But even offering mail contact with a provided public key for E2E encrypted transfer would cause less centralization.

@Brendanjones I would have never even thought about it without Mastodon (though I've had to explain to private businesses like banks or my employer that I don't have a google account or use WhatsApp...) And it's made me realise that this is the one topic where 99% of politicians and public servants represents me fully: they're normies, just like me. Some more than me, some haven't gone past search=Google and email=Gmail. They don't have Mastodon so, like me, they've never thought about it.

@Brendanjones One perk of being American is that we can delete WhatsApp and there are no downsides (it makes our European friends annoyed but that is actually also an upside).

@Brendanjones @briankrebs I appreciate that for something like that sometimes you have to meet people where they are.

What does drive me crazy is we get AMBER Alerts here for abducted children, that direct people to X links for more information, as if there aren’t an infinite number of other ways to post information on the Internet.

@vmstan @Brendanjones @briankrebs do those even work now without being signed into an account

@Brendanjones very bad indeed. You are almost required to have WhatsApp, Facebook or X if you want to communicate. I only have WhatsApp, but I really don't want to use it for stuff like that, or anything else.

@schmitzel76 @Brendanjones I have WhatsApp after having deleted my account for a long time, literally only for stuff like that 🥲

@Brendanjones at the same time, many of those are pretty convenient and someone pays for the other models. I would expect someone would want feature parity and similar support, availability... There's also the security challenges... I guess, it'd be nice but if it were practical, there'd be more of an open alternative and still requires some model of payment somewhere. What's any truly working model as such just open? Still paying for power, communications, discovery/adoption and equipment

@Brendanjones Whatsapp has become a defacto standard. I don't like it.

So many small businesses have a phone number and next to it parentheses with "Whatsapp". Luckily, one can still text or call those numbers without using WhatsApp. So far, no one complained and has just texted me back.

But when government services require it it's a whole other level of annoying and wrong.

@Brendanjones #Tennessee Bureau of Investigations Amber Alerts show up as tbi.pub/alert that leads to a Facebook page, where, if one doesn't have the app or an account, one is forced to close the nearly full screen (on a small cell phone) dialog before being able to see a barely legible screen shot of a part of an infographic. Sure it looks fine on a desktop or my unfolded Pixel Fold, but YMMV.

Why not just use tn.gov/ and cross post to Facebook?

www.facebook.comLog in or sign up to viewSee posts, photos and more on Facebook.

@Brendanjones yeah... and the Cyrillic script in the rendering of the #TBI short link to the Facebook page isn't concerning in any way 😒

@Brendanjones ... apparently most posts on #TBI are for Traumatic Brain Injury rather than Tennessee Bureau of Investigation 🤷‍♂️

@Brendanjones In the USA it is a largely held opinion that you are wrong: that government should hand all services over to corporate competition that will magically fix everything.

@Brendanjones Damn I though only Romania did this kind of shit

@Brendanjones apart from the fact it's clearly insane for the government to use a (foreign!) for-profit service to facilitate communications for them... I always think to myself "what if I ran a WhatsApp alternative?". Like literally, what if I was the CEO of a competitor? I'd be so furious my rival was somehow getting this preferential treatment. It's so obviously wrong.

@Tijn @Brendanjones just start a competitor ad network, insist the govt use that, when they do not sue for discrimination.

@Tijn @Brendanjones Now I'm wondering if this is stuff that should get put out to tender.