A lot can be said about moxie's web3 post.

I'd like to consider just one sentence here.

"People don’t want to run their own servers, and never will."

First part is true. But why?

Even my grandma can install android apps. Apps have become so easy because big tech pushed for it to be. Big tech never developed the concept of set-top box-like homeservers, not in their interest. If pushed like apps, homeservers would be easy too!

People don't want to? They never were given a proper chance to!

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Ergo, if development effort was put into making homeservers as easy to set up as a set-top box, people maybe would run their own servers.

So they never will? If we push for sane decentralization with solid tech for at home, they might just in the future.

"People don’t want to run their own servers, and never will."

=

- People don't want to drive in cold-fusion-powered cars, and they never will.
- But we don't have the tech to do that at the moment.
- Yeah, they really don't want to drive in them.

@yarmo It came so close to happening... nobody hesitated to run napster for reasons of 'but servers are hard'. But the ISPs would not play ball.

@feonixrift @yarmo napster... quake... i think some folks were even running ragnarok online on their own computers back in the day

@yarmo exactly, and the reason we haven't had the tech is because of the business models that are most profitable under current laws and pitiful regulation.

I'm hopeful Safe Network can change this. The network becomes the server and people have the choice to pay for their use either by running a node on commodity hardware (old PC or laptop, even Raspberry Pi) or purchasing tokens from others who do.

Should also be possible to earn doing work on smaller devices (eg mobile providing mesh etc).

@yarmo I don't think people will ever want to host their stuff, no matter how easy it is.

@person @yarmo some will never want to, some will never not want to. I think eventually you'd have little clusters or co-ops of folks who want to host, and take on the hosting for those who do not. But not at the scale and mostly monetary incentive of a proper hosting company.

@yarmo I’ve often pictured people using a raspberry pi in home with their own services. Unfortunately there is a lot to over come. Ignoring the Limitations of pi and setting up software. Let’s pretend that’s fully solved.

The part that’s hard is making it just “work” if they decide to leave the house still be able to access their stuff.

@geekgonecrazy oh yes, there's a lot to overcome. My server likes to crash when I leave.

But that's the thing: I can install apps with a single button on my phone. All the stuff that happens behind the scenes: the builds, the dependencies, the versioning, the delta updates. So much automation to allow the one click process.

(Oversimplification)

Surely, if as much care was put into homeservers, there'd be little we couldn't solve: DNS, network, backups, server restarts

(Conjecture galore :/)

@yarmo this is certainly true! If we wanted it bad enough it could be so. Site.js and YUNOHOST are a couple of great projects in that direction. Maybe embracing something like WireGuard would have with that sort of connection back

@yarmo big tech is not a uniform group either (in terms of hardware footprint and business model). Apple could do easy-to-install ubiquitous fediservers like as a weekend project.

Is it really not in their interests? Not clear.

Everybody bought into the idea that extreme centralization is actually a stable long term pattern.

The rear end of the winner-takes-all pattern is that winner must suppress all. Not very stable.

@yarmo

and that is as relevant (if not more) than license compliance

@yarmo
>Ergo, if development effort was put into making homeservers as easy to set up as a set-top box
Freedombox https://www.freedombox.org/

@yarmo how good are Linux distros at it? I mean, they're already doing this job, really the concern is if they fail sometimes.

And the other problem is dealing with the internet, like getting a domain name, constant IP, etcetera?

Federated systems don't solve this for people, but other decentralization bittorrent or tox.chat do.. yggdrasil-network.github.io/ can pass along any server, which is nice. (even with occasionally-down servers suppose might use it with RSS or something)

@yarmo with yggdrasil, do wish they had a commandline argument to turn sharing local servers. Can do that in the config by setting `IfName` to "none", or using the IPTables instructins in the FAQ
yggdrasil-network.github.io/fa

@yarmo Free (a French ISP) put a fair bit of functionality in their router boxes, including file serving and a torrent client. And ordinary people use it, because it's easy to set up.

Imagine if they made it possible to have server apps ... That would absolutely be something normal people would use.

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