Tenacity is already attracting a bigger developer community than it seems Audacity ever had.

@be it's sad what happened to the maintainer tho

@huy_ngo, nobody asked for my opinion, but I see both sides being immature AF here: I do feel sorry for the issue’s OP for being intimidated IRL (which can have really negative psychological effects regardless of physical harm) but false accusations and blatant censorship shall not help the fork. This really reminds me of discussions with Muse Group: while the incentives are different, such similarity in practice will not be aligning with the desire of the community that they both claim in the first place.

I have no problem with the both forks existing in the first place and I think on the grand scheme of things they’re contributing to a positive movement. That being said, considering they both choose GitHub as the platform of collaboration rely on it as the governing body to kick each other out, and GNU/Linux distros and BSD-based OSes will be patching Audacity downstream anyway, I think I’d stand far away and only be poking them with a two-meter stick.


4chan harassment, tenacity 

@cnx @huy_ngo Wait, what false accusations?

re: 4chan harassment, tenacity 

@wizzwizz4, I suppose fosstodoes render markdown quotes. From OP:

report the https://github.com/Sneeds-Feed-and-Seed/sneedacity project to GitHub as a hate speech, violence and harassment insinuating project). Report every single member contributing in this fork, because they were part of the harassment movement against me and my family.


I think all the people that are active in /g/ should get put in jail and be ashamed of themselves for making the world a worse place than it already is.

They are physically harming people, in real life.

I get it, maybe some of the 4chan forks intimidated OP in real life, but not all of them, and it’s uncertain if the offenders are the ones who posted on 4chan (could be a reader, who know?). Thus I’d consider collectively accusing everyone affiliated to the competing fork which is related to 4chan to be of bad faith. Plus [knocking] on [OP’s] doors and windows to scare [OP’s family] isn’t causing physical harm (I’m not saying it’s the right thing to do though).

Now move on into the discussion. The majority of the comments were removed with vague reason like participating in harassment, although I suspect they’re just disagreed with by the maintainers. I am mostly siding with #102 (which was part of the ban) except for the conclusion, which seems to due to conflict of interest. You know what, read it with a grain of salt like you should always do with any other flamewar on the Internet: https://web.archive.org/web/20210707052450/https://github.com/tenacityteam/tenacity/issues/102

re: 4chan harassment, tenacity 

@cnx I'm treating it with a grain of salt – but my priors are “the 4chan people are not trustworthy”. You're “both sidesing”, and I don't think that's merited.

re: 4chan harassment, tenacity 

@wizzwizz4, there’s a more recent comment from OP with claim of physical harm: https://github.com/tenacityteam/tenacity/issues/99#issuecomment-875319084

Perhaps the earlier wording was unclear. I am bothsidesing because I don’t think either side is being in good faith here and they are attempting to escalate the situation regardless of collateral damages.

re: 4chan harassment, tenacity 

@cnx … Speaking out about harassment is not “attempting to escalate the situation”.

The only potential issue is the “report everyone on the project”, but that's just adding entries to a ticketing system; it's not like reports have a direct effect. Harm caused by OP's “escalation”: maybe wasted time on the part of the GitHub moderators? Harm caused by 4chan's “escalation”: some programmer has a knife wound and their home is no longer safe.

re: 4chan harassment, tenacity 

@cnx And, honestly? Even if they're not directly responsible, it sounds like those people know what's going on. Under several jurisdictions, they'd be legally culpable.

Where is OP's libel? (Be aware that an accusation of false accusation is itself an accusation; make certain you are holding yourself to at least the same standards as others.)

re: 4chan harassment, tenacity 

@wizzwizz4, I’d consider

report the https://github.com/Sneeds-Feed-and-Seed/sneedacity project to GitHub as a hate speech, violence and harassment insinuating project). Report every single member contributing in this fork, because they were part of the harassment movement against me and my family.

I suppose you can read that purely as a call for action with GitHub, but I’d consider it is claiming anyone contributing to the other fork did perform hate speech, violence and harassment. (Analogy: consider accusing all black people to be criminals because you got mugged by one and saw some others talking about it, how does that sound?)

I will not be commenting on if OP was physically attacked: it’s not something I have knowledge of or is interested in gaining knowledge of via inappropriate means. I was referring to the collective accusation of harassment of other people who are working on free software and/or participating in this very discussion.

re: 4chan harassment, tenacity 

@cnx I expected you to bring up an association argument. If you think discriminating against “people who contribute to project X” is comparable to racism, I don't know why we're still having a conversation.

Why do you think that comparison is applicable?

re: 4chan harassment, tenacity 

@wizzwizz4, the analogy was made because it’s similar: a contributor to a project needs not be aware of other affiliated people, just like a person of one race does not know all others. One could contribute to a free software project just for the sake of free software. I understand that OP might be in shock and panic and that might explains such unjust claim, but that does not make it a right thing to do.

We are having this conversation because it’s the right thing to do: we have different views and there’s a need for discourse to enrich understandings.

re: 4chan harassment, tenacity 

@cnx The project name and readme reeks of 4chan, and the fork is obscure compared to tenacity.

Realistically, everyone there is a channer. They conceivably might not know about the harassment, possibly, but it's highly unlikely unrelated people are going to be contributing.

I don't think my understanding is being enriched, here; your apologia isn't bringing any new information to the table, or providing me with new perspectives or understanding.

re: 4chan harassment, tenacity 

There’re a lot of induction needs to be made to jump into such conclusion, @wizzwizz4. I’d side with s/Realistically,/Statistically, almost/ though, and I agree with your comment of the obscurity part. The chance for someone not coming from /g/ is low, but never 0, and keep in mind that to the general public Tenacity is still rather obscure compared to Audacity.

Even /g/ is a huge board; many wacky stuff you might know actually comes from /g/, e.g. sleep sort. It’s Hacker News or Reddit before those were popular. And it doesn’t really matter even if the majority of /g/ didn’t have anything to do with the attack towards our OP here, we don’t want innocent people hurt, no matter how few. Flamewar is a war and sparking it for the sake of revenge aren’t doing anyone any good.

This convo made me curious and dig deeper into the matter and found this: https://old.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/of7sdz/4chan_harassment_prompts_maintainer_of_most/h4bkk71/ BTW this got dragged along into the accusation part too far that I want to reemphasize my stand: both sides are acting rather childish and I don’t think either is the good guy in this case, although there were victims (e.g. OP of at least harassment and at most murder attempt).

re: 4chan harassment, tenacity 

@wizzwizz4, speaking about it isn’t, but saying everyone having anything to do with the other fork should be in jail certainly sparks heat. Look at what we’re arguing about right now.

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