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@uncenter @eleventy I think we have different definitions of “stagnate”

@zachleat @eleventy stagnate as in 481 open issues and multiple unmaintained "official" plugins?

@uncenter @zachleat @eleventy

A good OSS project is not necessary one without opened issues. Looking at the quality of floss by the number of issues is a misconception of what an issue is.
its not a shopping list to fill as fast as possible but a list of problems in a shared space where the community can provide a solution in the existing state
Bugs are fixed, new features get in, documentation is great, community amazingly alive.

Its not stagnation

@julientaq @zachleat @eleventy "the documentation is great" rofl have you ever used the docs?

@julientaq @zachleat @eleventy (for context, i've offered, along with other community members, to significantly if not fully restructure and rewrite the documentation on our own volunteer time)

@julientaq @zachleat @eleventy additionally im also one of the most active respondents to questions in the community discord, ive answered hundreds of questions and sent thousands of replies - some questions are so basic that it is clear where the problem lies...

@uncenter @zachleat @eleventy

it’s clear the problem is that people dont read the docs?

(sorry couldn’t resist).

I dont know about your story, but please be nice to people. don’t insult their work nor what they manage to do or not.

One never only knows their half of the story, and it’s easy to hurt people by not being careful.

@julientaq @zachleat @eleventy no, it's clear that the docs are poorly structured and fail to maintain the balance between reference materials and guides in a way that ends up with the benefits of neither (not enough reference so it's hard to learn the apis and too much tutorial material that it feels half like a walkthrough but without enough context).

@julientaq @zachleat @eleventy and for clarity, i'm not trying to insult zach's work here. i am only pointing out zach's inability to accept help from a community eager to assist. i understand that maintaining a large open source project is difficult, but he need not maintain it alone - most large projects of this size have a group of regular committers and contributors to steer the project in the right direction, merge key prs, maintain various neglected repos...

@uncenter

i wish you could read my word and understand them. You’re just being a bully at this point.

You want to make more docs for eleventy? nothing stops you to do so on your own space.

Picalilly did it in the beginning and it was a perfect complement to the 11ty docs. (pretty sure it helped all of us)

Everybody would be quite happy to read your content on your own site, and you could even become a reference.

I would be happy to read those pages of yours.

@uncenter @julientaq @eleventy Importantly, we have expanded our issue triage team—we have 4 folks helping there.

I *am* happy with the open PR numbers on core (though not on issues, hopefully we can improve there).

If you have specific issues you’d like to see addressed, please let me know—I’m keen to correct any wrongs you think are languishing.

But just to be frank—if the goal is to expand commit or publishing rights on core, that’s a very hard sell and probably not on the table.

@zachleat @julientaq @eleventy glad to hear that the triage team has expanded! i was thinking not necessarily expanding permissions/rights to merge PRs or make commits but moreso active PR reviews (time permitting) to allow an environment where others beyond you can regularly contribute to core.

@zachleat @julientaq @eleventy on the second detail, do you think you could outline a roadmap for your plans for v3 and v4 and beyond? i think some clarity here on what the priorities are here would be helpful. personally i think the following issues are key to address soon:
- https://github.com/11ty/eleventy/issues/3097
- https://github.com/11ty/eleventy/issues/2522
- https://github.com/11ty/eleventy/issues/1254

@zachleat @julientaq @eleventy and for the documentation, reading through https://github.com/11ty/eleventy/issues/3095 has a few different perspectives and ive linked a few more issues in my response. i think the best course of action is literally starting an initiative to rewrite the docs. i have some ideas for ways to improve it (layout, structure, appearance, content, writing style) but its hard to implement those without proper support from you

@cferdinandi @zachleat @eleventy i actually don't think pointing to accurate numbers in a response to zach questioning my use of the word stagnate is a "REALLY bad" tone.

@uncenter @cferdinandi @eleventy fwiw, I will say that I interpreted it as hostile

@zachleat @cferdinandi @eleventy i can see that now but im merely trying to justify my usage of the word. no offense intended!

@cferdinandi @zachleat @eleventy so the problem isn't what i said? my dude what are you saying

@uncenter @zachleat @eleventy it’s your tone. The same thing said differently would have been fine.

@cferdinandi @zachleat @eleventy how would you phrase it?

@uncenter @zachleat @eleventy I think telling someone who's talking about focusing full time on a vibrant project that it's "stagnated" set the tone off wrong from the start.

"Have you considered bringing on more full time folks so you can grow faster and address your backlog more easily?" is essentially asking the same thing without "negging" Zach or the project.

@uncenter @zachleat @eleventy It's also ENTIRELY possible that my ADHD-driven sensitivity is causing me to read your original words with a tone that wasn't there and react too strongly (or that you're also ND and I'm not recognizing your own communication quirks).

@uncenter @zachleat @eleventy As someone who's often told I'm being an asshole when I don't intend to be, you handled my feedback far better than I would have if I were on the receiving end of it.

@uncenter @cferdinandi @eleventy I can assure you that it not on purpose!

I do see some old bookmarked DMs that got lost in the shuffle. I’m not sure this is the best way to ping me about those, though.

@zachleat @cferdinandi @eleventy i dont mind at all, just found it ironic! this is not an attempt to get you to respond to them