macOS certainly has issues but MY GOODNESS is it ever a world of difference once you:

- use any Linux DE for a long stretch of time
- switch back to macOS

I have yet to find any all-encompassing Linux "system" that feels as well thought out as macOS. Linux is certainly superior in terms of user control at a deeper level, but more experience is needed to tap into those "features".

Design, ease-of-use and attention to detail cannot be overlooked. macOS just does this better.


Following up on this discussion, I decided to jot down my quick thoughts about the "Linux desktop" overall:

"The Linux Desktop is Hard to Love"

@tdarb Well, I've used a Mac mini for the past two weeks after being a regular Pop!_OS user and found...

1. I can't adjust the volume except through the controls on my monitor

2. Bluetooth sometimes works and sometimes doesn't

3. Pressing Ctrl-End sometimes takes you to the end of a document and sometimes to the end of the line. No consistency.


4. I had to force quit the Notifications process to get it to restart and actually work

5. You can't even keep a window on top of all of the other ones

So, yeah, perhaps were just used to the things we're used to? 😉

@dajbelshaw Oh I'm sure there will be difference of experiences from person-to-person! I never meant to imply that my opinion was at all the "correct" view 😛

I'm sure some will think I'm insane


As for your issues, some possible solutions?

1. No volume controls on your keyboard? I have no experience using external monitors for sound, so could be wrong

2. Yeah Bluetooth can certainly vary

3. Have you tried CMD-DownArrow instead? I know that toggles to bottom of entire documents

4. I don't use notifications fully (badges only) - but I wouldn't doubt bugs

5. Agree, that's an overlook 100%

@tdarb yeah the sound is greyed out entirely. Linux 'just works' for me 😂

@dajbelshaw @tdarb I have the same issue on MacOS with my speakers fed through HDMI from the monitor. It’s weird that MacOS can’t handle this well, I ended up using the volume knob on my speakers.

@tdarb I mean, the "XY works flawless with MacOS", while you'll probably find more people agreeing with this. compared to "XY works flawless with Linux", is also heavily due to vendors of XY actively testing and working on MacOS support. A luxury, that Linux only knows from x86 server hardware and very few limited vendors.

On the other hand when we have hardware "certified for Linux", the experience is, at least from what I've seen, comparable to the MacOS situation.

@tdarb out of curiosity which distro have you tried? (the one that lasted the longest)

@minkiu It was a pretty close tie between Linux Mint and Zorin OS. I still do enjoy both,

When I want to go full "performance" I tend to lean towards something like Debian running XFCE

The "ease of use" greatly depends on what you are trying to do though. :)

If i want to use php 8.1 with the capability to use avif compression via imagemagick, i just have to install it with pacman in Arch Linux.
If you want to do the same in macos, you will have to install php via homebrew, clone the repository of the imagick, compile it yourself and whatnot.
Whenever something like this comes up, i am extremely happy to have linux on my work laptop.
Another story: someone told me, that they get lots of ram in their macbooks, as they need it for running docker containers.
Since the operating itself seems to miss the necessary namespace capabilities, you have to run linux in a vm to run docker. Which is a farce, since containers should be lightweight compared to vms, and instead of that people are wrapping them in virtual machines.

So i guess, what you end up loving might depend on your personal use case. :)

Talking about printing: isn't CUPS the printing system in mac os as well?

@daniel Yes that does sound like a pain. Since I am primarily doing UI / design work, macOS is certainly a more seamless experience to work with the tools I need.

As for my mentioning Linux CUPS, my point was more that it doesn't seem to work as well in the "simply plug it in!" way. (When it really should be the same?)

@tdarb I wished i could comment in detail on why printers make trouble, but they are hellish black boxes to me as well. :blobxd:
Maybe it is just because vendors do not offer drivers or proper hardware description to create drivers.

@daniel Printers are absolutely horrible. We seem to make progress backwards every year and increase vendor lock-in for something that just needs to put ink on paper.

We can take 4K photographs of deep space but struggle to plug in a printer and hit "Print"

@tdarb I disagree with a lot of what's in there. Cups is an apple thing and apple uses it as well as linux. Device manufacturers are much more likely to support the apple side of things for obvious reasons.

As for the User Experience and Quality Hardware parts, I don't understand much of it. Snap, flatpak, etc. isn't really required by most linux distros. It is complementary, where something like homebrew isn't if you want to do real work on a mac.

Linux is as hard or easy as you make it.

@tdarb MacOS feels deliberately hobbled to me, and you have to pay to turn on the bits you need to work. Mac has it's own learning curve, too... especially coming from windows. The engineering (credit should go to its BSD base for this) and hardware control is done for mac's benefit, not ours. It's easier to have a maintenance structure built around one kind of os and device. You also have to agree to a lot of rules if you want to develop for mac that linux simply doesn't have.

@tdarb @allinone0 I'm beginning to wonder if the "desktop with files and folders" paradigm has had its day and needs an update. Not sure what that would look like, but a new approach to the UI would be interesting to explore.

@tdarb I agree. I tend to use Linux on a desktop and macOS on a laptop. Linux on my desktop is mostly flawless once I've set it up. But I've had to many minor issues with Linux on a laptop that cost me time/money. I know when I open the lid of my macbook air, everything will be there and I can start working. And that's really the deciding factor for me.

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