From designing alliances to future stories, our quest for a collaborative :

@rmdes well ... what I can say concerning the fablabs, is that this structure came over to help Citydev that has started to fund out-of-the-ground fablabs, ignoring the actual existing grassroot ones, to fill them up with something that could have a face ...and that has not helped the grassroot ones at all
I have not met that team (CIN) but it looks like they are playing a bit the cool-trendy-agency that "patch" the flaw of a ridicule system (which by experience I know is very broken in bxl...)

@Olm_e I understand your point, full disclosure, I was part of the launch of CIN, mostly as their tech-guy (website, social media, server infra) but did not followed the full process, I had to focus on at some point after the first few assemblies. CIN approach was to bridge actors that usually never speak to each others or that don't exist to each others, precisely grassroots vs institutions, it's well possible that by trying this approach they missed key grassroots elements.

@Olm_e ps : I don't think CIN ignored the existing fablabs, what enfolded is more: the institutions copied or even stole attention from existing places and re-branded themselves as if they were at the origins of this type of things in Brussels. CIN was merely trying an approach that is usually rejected in Brussels in my experience : talk to state/regional actors and try something.

@rmdes mm ... ok but : it's the usual business here : some group is (genuinely?payed?) making the buffer with some illusion to change things and either help the institution/authority by washing their deed, or get screwed/put aside ...( or both)
I have seen this 10³ times ... the fact they claim succes is a bit deceptive...:/
there need to have some change at the political level for this to become real, nowadays the spirit/process is totaly skewed between corruption and small talk business...

@Olm_e we agree on the symptoms, to be honest I shared without reading the all thing, i wouldn't feel confortable with "success" but i respect what they did/tried todo. regarding funding CIN was funded by small donations (by individuals, often close or not of the launch of the project) and got one 20K grant if I remember correctly from 4Wings Foundation (again from memory) all through OpenCollective (built in transparency) hence the ways the funds were used is public.

@rmdes I understand and I have also been in/seen that situation where it's difficult to differentiate.
I would just hope we got less "naive" and more organised/informed to have more collective leverage
the tale that people don't talk together is deceptive, and I was a bit upset about that : there is really a tissue of people and organisation that just needs to get together somehow, passing above this institution level...
(and I could talk about so many networks...)

@Olm_e to me it's simple, I have accepted that at scale (not talking about day to day manifestation of networks working together to sustain themselves and allow other possibilities) so at scale, if we want to change things, we have to take power. Look at Barcelona : they did not changed the housing policy of the whole city before putting Ada Colau as mayor. she was the co-founder of LaPAH (very grassroots movement against eviction, preceding 15M/indignados/occupy) before 2011 this group already

@Olm_e had blocked thousands if not hundreds of thousands of evictions and had a network of network to relocate families and occupy empty buildings etc.. but when things really changed is when citizens created Barcelona en Comu and took the city. That's when the culture changed completely. even though BarcelonaEnComu was a minority party, by doing an alliance with a pre existing party, they managed to govern and pivot things for good.

@Olm_e That's when it was possible to scale change and make it so for a whole city, not just a neighbourhood or an invisible alternative sustainable network, for the whole city. I miss this in Brussels. (thinking WeBrussels initiative wants to do exactly that) but the barriers to entry in this country is huge, huge. so much that the only way might be to jump over it altogether. we won't scale our efforts if we don't take cities or villages/communes first. my 2 cens :)

@rmdes I see catalonia and barcelona with great warm, but indeed, it's not close to the same environment in brussels ... I fear this is the eye of the cyclone, and it will unlock at the end of the storm only ... (so I'm a bit excentered now ;p )

@rmdes and no : people and associations/organisation try all the time to have dialog, it's just that the authorities don't want to talk, so they are glad when some group comes with a nice bill (that fits the xls doc cells well) to make the cushion to "soften" the expression of the public ... (so they don't have to ear it basicaly)

sorry but... 20y in so many stuff (culture/tech/transition/...) in bxl : good outcomes are rare from my pov...

@Olm_e again agree on the fact that civil society (in its many forms and layers) try all kinds of things all the time and are not being heard, (not just a brussels issue this is an epidemic at this stage) and also agree on the way authorities use these opportunities to brand-wash themselves, CIN was trying to bridge and push for grassroots ideas at institutional level. it's a good thing to do, how you articulate is the whole challenge & success depends on this, I'm not saying this part succeeded

@rmdes juste pour apport d'info sur cette conversation : la tension entre ces fablab institutionnels installés par citydev et ceux préexistants n'est pas qu'une perception de ma part : c'est remonté jusqu'au parlement bruxellois :

@rmdes and f.ex. when citydev/entrakt is proposed sound alliances between organisations to occupy an empty place, they just throw you sh... in the face... because they don't have the impression to control it.
so maybe CIN is kindly building illusion walls between those stupid head of departments and real people?? I don't know ... ... Oo ...

@Olm_e I think CIN did their best to try to wake up institutional actors to wake up to the reality of Brussels grassroots initiatives, underground realities, but the actors they were speaking to, just wanted to self-rebrand or greenwash themselves more than actually move forward. I know it was very frustrating for CIN too but in my view, it was a needed thing to do in Brussels. and maybe re-iterate differently ?

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