Okay, so I just spent a huge amount of time reading correspondence from Poettering(systemd dev) to the debian team about a single tiny little script in systemd.

Why is systemd a thing? Their scripts make things endlessly complex. Little scripts double in size. Tiny C modules triple in size, just to account for the complexity of systemd.

What ever happened to the Unix Philosophy?

@poetgrant systemd exists because what came before it was even more terrible in many ways, despite the propaganda, consolekit was unmaintained, each package had their own spaghetti shell script instead of a uniform service file etc.

systemd's far from perfect, but looking at sysvinit with rose tinted glasses doesn't help either.

@MatejLach I think far from perfect is an understatement. The conflicts it has with kernel default by design just drive me completely nuts.

@poetgrant @MatejLach not using Slackware anymore? Systemd is a non issue

@tramtrist @MatejLach oh no I am, but I have Debian on my big machine and keep running into errors and recently found out that the errors are happening because of conflicts between kernel defaults and systemd defaults.

@poetgrant

Interesting, am on Arch, which was pretty much the first distro to adopt systemd, so it's possible it's been integrated better, but I have no problems with systemd.

I did in fact had many problems with sysvinit, where the disorganized patchwork of individual scripts with slightly different capabilities for each made these problems hard and time consuming to debug.

I don't know what 'conflicts with kernel defaults' is supposed to mean, but I don't suffer from them.

@tramtrist

@MatejLach
I won't pretend that I understand the conflicts, I just know that there were a lot of init errors (fortunately I don't restart that machine much) they caused issues with my local web server's symlinks. Eventually I figured out how to disable the systemd defaults and revert to the kernel defaults. But in the end it lead me to a mass of systemd bug reports and the arrogance of the systemd devs to tell the debian devs to just suck it up and accept it.
@tramtrist

@poetgrant

Right, I just find it odd that I never ran into such errors on my Arch systems, which are running systemd for years and so find it hard to place the blame entirely/primarily on systemd.

@tramtrist

@MatejLach @tramtrist well, the error was caused by arrogant devs at systemd trying to supercede the kernel defaults... so what can I say?

@poetgrant

I very much doubt that Debian even ships with completely vanilla kernel, as none of the distros do, but could you link me the issue? I'd certainly be interested to see it.

@tramtrist

Follow

@MatejLach
This one is the one where they were being arrogant. My issue was handled via a friend of mine. But this link is similar, though dealing with a separate use case.

bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrep

@tramtrist

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