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Question:

Why is Office365 still a thing? My company uses it and it is so painful and they are PAYING for it! I just won't really understand...

@poetgrant LibreOffice is hella ugly, still. Like, it legit looks like MS Office 2003...16 years later

I'm all for FOSS, you know this, but when the alternatives aren't attractive, in a physical office that already looks drab, I'd prefer Office365

Why's it painful for you?

@brandon @poetgrant ...and that's exactly why Microsoft introduced the ribbon UI in 2007.

It doesn't make your work flow any easier, but it does teach users different habits and gets them used to an interface Microsoft can sue everyone else into the ground for using.

So OpenOffice & LibreOffice just stuck with the classic UI layout.

If you want to make it look prettier, the sifr icon pack is quite good 👍

@brandon @poetgrant my apologies for the rant. It seems after all these years I'm still mad at Microsoft deliberately breaking interoperability. 😅

eg docx can be read in rival office suites following Microsoft's OpenXML standard, but Microsoft themselves use a "transitional" variant. They only support old versions of Open Document Format because the EU made them. Etc

@bobstechsite @poetgrant No you're perfectly fine in your rant! It's a valid thing to be upset about. I'm frankly appalled that they even got the grant for the patent. That being said, how enforceable is that in the scheme of open source software should nobody be making money off of it?

@brandon @poetgrant patent holders can sue for "damages" which would include "loss of earnings" from people using the infringing product. Although more likely they'd just patent troll people for "license fees" that are cheaper than fighting a court case.

Also, technically you can sell free software. People with bad Internet connections do buy physical copies, and companies sell products & services around software they sponsor.

@bobstechsite @poetgrant Ah but in that case you're not selling the software but moreso selling the service of putting it into a physical form or selling the service of supporting the software, correct?

And yeah, Microsoft is probably one of the bigger patent trolls out there. I'm surprised LibreOffice isn't facing legal battles yet for the Notebook UI (or whatever they're calling it)

@brandon @poetgrant I work for a company that sells computing equipment & virtual servers with their variant of Linux installed on it. One could construe that as "selling Linux"?

@bobstechsite Also, I don't think there's a patent that actually was granted in the EU yet for that specific application

@brandon it is slow. It doesn't always work. The email client is web based now. The word processor I actually don't have much issue with, but the email environment... well let's just put it this way, I haven't checked my email for iver a year now. I tell my boss and the IT team that they can come tell me face-to-face or send me a message on the terminal app that is our warehouse inventory interface.

@poetgrant Office365 has the option for a local Outlook install, it's your enterprise that either hasn't installed it for you, or hasn't paid for a license (I read something about it being a separate thing?)

Outlook Web is not the only option for Office365

@brandon even still, I think it is the ugliest and most bloated program I've ever used. I mean, I'll put it this way, I would prefer to use the web interface to mail.riseup.net, which is basic and not very helpful, than MS outlook. Just the RAM usage bugs me because we have PCs with 2GB of RAM and i3 processors on the low end that really can't handle a mail app that takes over half that RAM just to turn on.

I guess I wonder why pay for it when there are so many better alternatives for free?

@poetgrant It's "industry standard" and it's hard to break that mindset. But I am on the same page as you. If only there were alternatives that were as "complete" as Office365.

Yes, you can argue that LibreOffice is better until you're blue in the face, but until LibreOffice begins to offer corporate-level support and the majority of techs are familiar with it, tough shit I guess? Also, I'm sure a business would prefer Office365 alone compared to using two solutions: LibreOffice+Thunderbird

@brandon @poetgrant
There's also the Google factor to consider: realistically, for many enterprise use cases, if they switch away from office365 they'll be switching to gsuite apps. As much as I'd love to see a libre solution gain traction at the enterprise level, I don't see a realistic path forward (in the short term, anyway) so I'm left hoping that Office365 can hold on, if only so that Google doesn't take over.

@codesections @poetgrant AFAIK usually the larger enterprises go with O365 and the smaller ones (less than 50 employees) go with the GSuite.

I had an interview for a startup with about 20 employees and they were "all about the cloud." Not sure if that was the startup mindset or the small business mindset though

@brandon @codesections @poetgrant My employer (4000+ employees) uses gsuite, fwiw. We're public sector, though, so that may make a difference.

@erikstl @brandon @codesections I know Google is bad and all, but I strongly prefer the Google approach to things. A lot cleaner and simpler. Also not resource heavy on client side... with that said, I don't use google products anymore either for other concerns.

@poetgrant @erikstl @codesections same here on the Google front. I'll be setting up NextCloud tonight woohoo! :)

@erikstl @codesections @poetgrant depending how public, yeah it might me a difference. I can see something like the DMV using it over O365, for the fuck of it.

@erikstl @codesections @poetgrant Hmm, yeah makes sense considering the possible number of sites with a limited infrastructure budget

@brandon have you heard anything about eOS rewriting their Mail app from scratch? I thought I read that somewhere....

@poetgrant AFAIK pantheon-mail is a fork of Geary.

I think it was the Code app they rewrote though

@poetgrant @brandon If its a large institution/enterprise, it is often down to standardising on the support needed. O365 is a full expensive solution, but it is one entity that can be supported by O365 trained staff.

Whereas multiple solutions to an office environment, often have to be supported separately, which increases complexity and costs.

Although stick an MS badge on anything seems to do that as well IMHO. :)

The bloat of everything seems to be about pushing purchasing forward.

@hund yes. Not allowed to use anything else. I tried using LibreOffice actually a year ago and received a written warning for installing non lisenced software.

@poetgrant Wow, what the.. Why? I would do a Stallman on them. :stallman:

@poetgrant I used it personally and am still at work and it is a pain. Web apps are slow and you need to wait for something on every step. Biggest issues are whit OneDrive. File sync can error up quite often and if it is on colleges pc that are not tech savvy then it is not good.

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