I've been reading reviews on https://www.dedoimedo.com/ The guy nailed some user related issues quite well:
1. Regular user doesn't want to fiddle with geeky stuff.
2. OS that aims to be used by a regular user has to work out of the box.
3. Libre office has to be 100% capable of opening any kind of shit made on MS Word.
4. Currently there is no Linux distro that could satisfy a regular user.
5. You should change software (OS) and hardware at the same time.
6. There are too many Linux distros.
2. Many many Linux distributions are just like that.
4. That's bs.
6. Good or bad? To some, bad bad bad. To some, choices matter.
6. Too many is bad in my opinion. All these really clever people coming up with great ideas and every linux crew in their own world, basement, student room. I have a feeling if they joined forces they could make linux distro that would blow win and mac out of the seven seas... and then still have time to spare for all kinds of interesting experiments.
@paladin Oh hi! Really sorry, missed your notification. That thing isn't good yet. Let me go through it all :)
@paladin 2,4: With all the different distributions out there, differences like those are bound to happen. The thing is, after a while you learn exactly what is what. And quite honestly, even if there are hundreds of distributions out there, most don't have to even be aware of that! Stick with Ubuntu, and there's no need to get angry at things of that sort.
@paladin I do agree with many of his points. Things like nvidia driver issues, different software suit availability, screen tearing, etc. Yes, they exist. On the other hand, there's a solution for each one of those. You have pop os for nvidia otb, a simple xorg file for tearing. Once you *understand* what's going on, things can be very simple. Now if someone just don't want to do that, then I guess that's not exactly a Linux issue now, is it?
@debdut Linux issue. I will say yes and no. If you accept this is a Linux life for a user, then no, it is not a linux issue but user who don't want to get used to Linux way. If you see a user as a regular Joe/Jane , then yes, it is a big Linux issue.
@paladin I get your point. The only issue I have with this is that with all the advantages you get, as an average Joe with no Windows specific needs like Adobe suite, as that's a different story, there's still a lack of effort in learning some new things. And even if that's the case, stay with Windows, I personally have no problem with that. But saying something like "Linux distributions are unusable" is what makes me sad.
@debdut Not unusable. Never. I was referring to it as not being 100% usable to a "regular user". What makes me sad it that i see the potential and value, and I would really like to see a linux distro go that extra mile and iron out those last 1% that is responsible for 50% of impression.
@paladin You'll probably never see that happen because there's an undocumented "standard" that windows has put. From how programs are installed to how a UI should look. And I don't blame them. Everyone knew about Windows far earlier than Linux. Many still don't know Linux's existence. Unless people start to ignore that "standard", they won't ever be open to a different experience I'm afraid.
@debdut Yes. There is a habit of how "computer" should look when you turn it on, but that isn't the biggest obstacle in my opinion. What if we realize that majority of computer users fall into that grey group of office users and students who need to write that docx and sent that pptx for a review. The mere possibility that their work could be rejected because of some incompatibility issue with nonMSOffice office would turn them away. This is a deal braker.
@paladin The group of users you just mentioned, that gray group, that is for sure a limitation. And that is where I say use Windows. It's just better at that job. But in my opinion, that alone shouldn't be the exhibit of how usable Linux distributions are or not. It's a determining factor, yes. But Linux developers can't do anything about it unless the owners decide to enter the Linux market. While libreoffice/gimp/resolve are there, they've just yet not crossed the finish line.
@paladin You might say now "Windows doesn't have those issues". Yes, indeed. Because the hardware companies been supporting Windows for how long now? Linux is still catching up, and it's doing a hell of a job tbh. Even many of us have been happy with the otb experience of it. My latest hardware works exactly as expected otb without a hair of an issue. So where am I in the group?
Ps: Linux distributions are FAR MORE performative than Windows.
@debdut I agree and I take it into account, but it is like a student with that says 'but I studied so hard'. Don't get me wrong. I am personally amazed by all the work and time people invest mostly on voluntary basis into linux developement. As learning more about it I am starting to be aware of additional possibilities. I just have a feeling that people involved should think about pooling resources. Sometimes it is better just to get from A to B, without walking every step of the way yourself.
@paladin "Sometimes it is better just to get from A to B, without walking every step of the way yourself"
Yes. True. I too dislike most of the "from scratch" projects or similar when there's no evident problem with the current options. That is just sad.
@paladin A statement like "currently there's no Linux distribution that can satisfy a regular user" is just incorrect. I am aware of Linux's issues, Wimdows's advantages. And as I said, I agree with many of the author's points, still.
I have a friend, who's been running windows 10, and it broke (something he did). I went to fix it, and it was an OLD hardware, dual core, 4GB memory. He only used it for YouTube/SM.
@paladin So I recommended using Linux, as that was his only requirements. Something like Ubuntu Mate would've ran flawlessly on that machine, where Windows would've struggled, struggled being an understatement. His response was "I won't be able to use Linux, get me Windows 8.1 if necessary". Who is a regular user? What's his/her requirements exactly? Why is Linux unable to meet that requirement? I see people who don't want to learn something new rather than Linux's inability to provide.
@debdut I installed Ubuntu Mate for my mom (she used win 7 before). Didn't tell her what it was. She is 73 now and for the last 5 years happy on linux. :) Who is a regular user... THE question.
Maybe I am missing the big picture. As there are a lot of distros there are certanly a lot of different purposes they are developed for. Not only the 'regular user'.
@paladin "As there are a lot of distros there are certanly a lot of different purposes they are developed for. Not only the 'regular user'"
Exactly. Some distributions are *meant to be hard to use*. Like Arch or Gentoo. You can't make a scale on that. Distributions are evolving SO fast nowadays. Yes we lack a lot, we're progressing, and Linux distributions are indeed usable by many users of the general population. All they need is just an open mind, and acceptance to learning something new.
@paladin 6: I shared your opinion once, and still do to some extent. But here's the thing, what's to us is meaningless, to someone is one more meaningful option. Pooling all the resources, while this may seem logically more effective, think about this, if snap's developer and appimage's developer were put in the same team, which one would've prevailed? And which one we wouldn't have known about?
@paladin People working independently, creating something new lets them explore ideas without any collision, therefore no collaterals.
So is too many options a bad thing? Yes and no. I've learnt over the years to ignore those that are unnecessary to say the least, and keep my eyes open to those that show potential. You won't know what's behind a door unless you open it. Being able to create something new, even if it's trying to recreate something, is opening the door. (Imo)
@debdut I agree. It makes it so very exciting. When Vikings were to sack Paris, some prince came to negotiate and asked 'who is your leader'. They said we are all leaders and then they sacked Paris.
If the whole linux world would be one company eventually there would be a boss who would say 'OK you have a nice polished product, you are the core team, give it to sales people to sell it and make money, and you are creative cutting edge pervs I can hardly understand, you be R&D' and so on.
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