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I installed Debian and it feels like I tried to install Windows 10 on a computer from 2006. Anything involving graphics in GNOME (like animations) are just like "lol nah"

So I try to get the proprietary NVidia drivers (the FIRST thing I try to install) and... "you have held broken packages"

...are Debian and derivatives just unviable for desktop use? apt is quite possibly the worst piece of popular Linux software I've used

@njha Debian being a bit more hardcore about the free software is probably tougher to get the proprietary Nvidia drivers up and running(but works great with AMD or Intel from my experience). Other Debian based distros like Ubuntu and Mint would probably work much better with NVidia.

@bsharitt I normally use noveau anyway (which is what I assume is there by default). However, on Debian everything is completely broken...

- typing into firefox repeats keys
- the mouse lags
- animations lag
- doing anything makes the fans spin up (??)
- plymouth crashes on boot

So I was thinking maybe it's a graphics issue and tried to install NVidia drivers... but of course that didn't work either.

Completely stock Debian install btw, nothing fancy.

@njha kind of surprising, Debian normally just works. Though I don't use graphical install. And ofcourse I install stable then alter my repos to track unstable.

@jordan31 graphical install yes, but the only repo change I made was enabling nonfree

and even before enabling nonfree, everything was broken (which is what made me want to enable nonfree)

@jordan31 @njha there's absolutely nothing wrong with Debian and it's your fault

@crunklord420 @jordan31 @njha lol can't tell if you're being sarcastic as this is such a typical response. There must be a word for it. "Neckbearding"?

@tomosaigon @jordan31 @njha if you're having a dependency management issue in Debian it's probably your fault.
@crunklord420 @jordan31 @njha @tomosaigon I'm pretty sure it's something your going to have to do to move form stable to unstable.
@endlessmike @jordan31 @njha @tomosaigon normal upgrade will not upgrade packages that unsafely alter the dependency tree.

dist-upgrade will remove conflicting packages to resolve dependency issues. Depending on what branches of the repo you're using this can result in software being removed. Sometimes the solution is to wait for the the package managers. This is mostly a thing in sid/experimental.
@crunklord420 @endlessmike @jordan31 @njha @tomosaigon also don't forget that if you lose internet connection while downloading meta-packages it will still remove them before. So have fun with a dead system that can't fucking think because apt is a piece of shit
@FailurePersonified @crunklord420 @endlessmike @jordan31 @njha @tomosaigon
Yaml is still worse than apt.
So far, the only somewhat decent package manager I have seen is Ruby's Gem.
@TheMadPirate @crunklord420 @endlessmike @jordan31 @njha @tomosaigon

hey as long as i can get a package manager THAT DOESN'T NUKE PACKAGES BEFORE THEY'VE BEEN UPDATED i'll be a happy camper.
@FailurePersonified @crunklord420 @endlessmike @jordan31 @njha @tomosaigon
I remember that time PIP nuked one of my Python installs because I didn't have VS 2015 installed.....
@FailurePersonified @crunklord420 @endlessmike @jordan31 @njha @tomosaigon
A big problem with those "Linux Style" package managers is the overtly messy dependency management ( instead of a more appropriate self contained package), so they either end up relaying in dependencies that they either can't find/are incompatible with your OS or feel the need to compile them "on the spot" ( with the associated risk of compiler failure).
@TheMadPirate @crunklord420 @endlessmike @jordan31 @njha @tomosaigon

but if you have like 300+ dependencies you have to start asking yourself some real hard questions
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@TheMadPirate
Package manager that compiles everything from source. It's actually very good about dependencies.
@jordan31 @njha @tomosaigon @FailurePersonified @crunklord420 @endlessmike

@njha unpopular opinion - apt is probably the best thing in Debian. Probably in Linux. Probably it has inspired all the *app stores* we have to date.
So, it's probably you ;)

@njha Linux Mint handles that situation. Install with 3rd party software sources enabled. Go into Driver Manager and available NVidia drivers are listed. Select your preference and it's installed. No fuss.

@njha if you plan to use propietary graphic drivers, you should use ubuntu, Debian is a "more-free-focused" distro.

@nitox Thanks. I don't really want the proprietary drivers though, it was just a debugging step to see if Noveau was the thing that was broken on Debian.

@njha @nitox
Sorry to nitpick, but you've mispelled it twice in this thread. It's nouveau, not noveau. Nouveau is a French word and means "new". No idea why they chose it to name a free nvidia driver.

I must be computer illeterate, I've managed to hose my Debian installs in short order the 2-3 times I tried. 🙄 Never an issue with Ubuntu. Been using nouveau for the past few years without a hitch, but my PC is 7-year old.

@njha @nitox
Speaking of, I should have written illiterate. Talk about illiteracy 😄

@njha
>So I try to get the proprietary NVidia drivers (the FIRST thing I try to install)
>fosstodon.org
You deserve everything

@Lucky Hey, just as a debugging step to see if nouveau was the issue. Turns out it was, and I managed to fix nouveau later and am currently using Debian. :)

@njha
I don't see how installing proprietary drivers would be necessary. It's usually pretty obvious when graphical drivers are broken.

@Lucky It manifested as really bad performance, which could have been a lot of things.

In the end I did need nonfree software to make nouveau work (the nvidia firmware) anyway. So you still need nonfree software to use an NVidia GPU.

@njha
I heard the 700 series was the last to not require binary blobs. You should buy a 750 Ti off of ebay and use that instead.
@njha
Wait, apparently 750 is Maxwell, unlike the other 700 series cards that were Fermi, so I don't know how well it's supported by nouveau.
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