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I want to make the switch away from to either or .
Any tips/advice for speeding up the process and making a smooth transition?
Also, opinions between the two alternatives, or another alternative I'm unaware of?

@nebunez I buy my domains from XenCentricHosting, and as part of the package I get website and email hosting.

@nebunez I imagine you've already considered fastmail, but I've been very happy with the my account there

@nebunez
I, too, am a happy FastMail user. I had missing feature issues with both Proton and Tutanota both.
@codesections

@nebunez both proton and tutanota are jokes, just go with literally any free mail service with imap, or set up your own (its easier than it sounds)

@wowaname @nebunez Just curious: what about protonmail and Tutanota make you say they are "jokes"? It's best to say why when trying to talk about why or why not to use an app and/or service.

@blaubachn @nebunez neither are compatible with imap (proton only offers it for paid accounts and tuta doesnt offer it at all), protonmail injects a signature into outgoing mails, both of them use nonstandard encryption instead of standardised rfc3156 pgp/mime encryption
@blaubachn @nebunez idk man i just tend to assume people can find this stuff out themselves so i dont explain why they are indeed jokes

@wowaname @blaubachn
Thanks for sharing that information. It's just more helpful to give info than to just say "thing is bad". These are definitely points I can take into consideration.

@nebunez @blaubachn its more fun and less effort to say "thing is bad"
@Naughtylus @nebunez @blaubachn any email provider "supports pgp". protonmail's pgp seems like it requires storing your private key on their servers (although it's encrypted with your password, but still, i'd rather not have the private key touch my browser at all)

@wowaname @nebunez @blaubachn
Point given for private key staying local.

But at least they're making a move to democratize privacy and encryption. I'm a power user, but I know most of my friends aren't. Setting up PGP with them would be an adventure, while having them open an account at ProtonMail is more easy. In the end you need an account somewhere anyway, so why not support this kind of effort while you're at it?

@Naughtylus @blaubachn @nebunez to me it seems like protonmail and tutanota are abusing this email privacy craze as their business model, and i would just be sceptical about everything these companies are doing. FWIW i'm also heavily sceptical about keybase for similar reasons
@Naughtylus @blaubachn @nebunez i'm all for decentralisation. i'd rather have user-friendly FOSS clients rather than encouraging user-friendly centralised services. PGP is definitely lacking from a UX perspective; even i hate dealing with it, but that just means we need to tackle the issue clientside

@wowaname @blaubachn @nebunez
As for IMAP/SMTP support, those protocols are not secure, so you have to have bridge that connects securely to protonmail, and then exposes a local IMAP/SMTP server for mail clients. The protonmail bridge is currently in beta which is why it's only available to premium users

@Naughtylus @nebunez @blaubachn what are you smoking? any competent mail provider already uses a TLS layer for client IMAP/SMTP access, and PGP doesn't magically go away when you use these protocols

@wowaname @nebunez @blaubachn
Hey let's keep it civil.

Okay I'm no expert, but I guess IMAP/SMTP is getting in the way for protonmail when authenticating precisely because the pk is on the server

@Naughtylus @wowaname @nebunez

Just want to summarize a bit. So you say that they are jokes because:
- No IMAP
- Not using PGP
- They aren't gratis

It sounds to me like these are somewhat matters of preference:
- I don't use IMAP anyways (Mobile app + Web client)
- I'm fine with mimicked pgp where my private key is generated from my password
- I'm fine with FOSS costing money

I think it's more that they don't fit what you are looking for, not that they are "jokes" implying they are unusable.

@nebunez I like protonmail. It's got a nice interface. If you need IMAP you'll have to pay for an upgraded account which supports their work/service. I used to run my own mail server but I no longer have stable enough internet at home to make that a viable option. My vps provider restarts my server too often to host something like a mail server there. Kinda annoying to have to ssh in to unlock root partition every time they decide to do that.

@unicornfarts Unfortunately, the reasons you describe are the same reasons I don't want to self-host. 😦
I don't know if I need IMAP or not, I should look into it. Admittedly, I don't know much about mail protocols.

@nebunez basically if you want to use a mail client to retrieve your mail you'll need to use pop/IMAP. Otherwise protonmail web interface is how you'd check your mail. If you're coming from Gmail I think you'll find proton's web iface to be refreshing and more minimalistic.

@unicornfarts Ah, I see. I don't have any preference to clients. I do require a mobile client with push notifications, though.

@nebunez the protonmail app works well. It has push notifications. It also is minimalist.

@nebunez fastmail has a gmail importer

just click a button and connect and overnight your gmail emails will be in your fastmail account

@nebunez Hey! Maybe take a look at this list if you haven't already: dismail.de/serverlist.html I used the free service of Protonmail for a while, but wouldn't recommend it. Also I read you have to use your phone number to register a tutanota account but I haven't tried it myself so...

@vulpesvulpes @nebunez I don't recall providing my phone number to register for Tutanota. It would be odd for a privacy-oriented provider to ask for one.

@AppleStrudelMan Yes it would be odd. As I said I haven't tried it myself but thought I read this about Tutanota somewhere. Maybe it's an old info or not true at all and I confused it with Protonmail (they sometimes ask for verification via phone).

@nebunez
Some time ago I did some research and decided for ProtonMail. I remember reading about deciding pros, 1 location (country) was preferred, 2 security protocols aproch were prefieresd.

@nebunez
I own a domain with which I forward my mx record to protonmail. I needed to pay for their bottom tier package to do this. My personal and professional (DNS pointed) mail arrive in the same inbox. I use a filter to sort pro mail into a separate folder.

My only gripe is that I need to use the webapp on linux as their bridge for linux mail clients is still in the works and if you have a phone that can't use their app, you're unable to check your mail without a computer.

@nebunez The biggest pro to using protonmail though, is it's end-to-end encryption between protonmail users. If someone is *not* on protonmail, you can send self destructing, password protected encrypted mails them. This has proven to be both very handy and impressive to clients.

@nebunez If you go to tutanota, you can migrate your contacts easily, but make sure you go through the web-based interface on your pc. I couldn't get it to work through the app on the mobile device. I like Tutanota..

@nebunez I didn't know about tutanota. I'm a happy ProtonMail user.

I remember 2 years ago I was so frustrated of the available mail providers. Either it's free and well known (gmail, microsoft, yahoo and what not) but then you become a GAFA product, or you have to go for some unkown underground provider that you don't know you can trust, or you have to pay, and even then you can't be sure what they do with your data.

It was such a relief finding protonmail.

@Naughtylus @nebunez TAKE A LOOK ABOUT PROTONMAIL'S DATA MINING, I saw an article on internet few months ago...

@Phreaker @nebunez Well. I just hope you're wrong. Maybe one day I'll take a look at the source code to make sure my data is safe

@Phreaker
I've read the article and it's very detailed in their investigation. But I starting suspecting the website more than their claims. Starting with saying they are the only ones with the proof. Then I saw their home page and notice that they critiqued every mainstream vpn. So which is more likely, only they are right or the rest of the world is right? And no other press have confirm their findings.
@Naughtylus @nebunez

@sproid @Phreaker @Naughtylus @nebunez sounds like the start of a story which ends in pulitzer prize.. where theres smoke theres fire..

@Phreaker
Yeah, that's the main source for the article. But again I kept searching and couldn't find any news article regarding the allegations. But I did find a counterargument. vpnmentor.com/blog/is-nordvpn-
@mightywomble @Naughtylus @nebunez

@sproid @Phreaker @Naughtylus Yeah, after taking the time to read through, I'm going to give Proton benefit of the doubt until I hear more.

@Phreaker @Naughtylus @nebunez I'm confused about the article you linked to claiming darius bereika as the CEO of protonmail. The CEO of protonmail is Andy Yen. How is Andy Yen linked to the data mining company Tesonet?

@unicornfarts @Naughtylus That's the only article I could find, so I assumed it's the one that @Phreaker was referring to

Thanks for the input, everyone. I've been too busy to continue research, but these responses have given me points to consider.

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