trying to get along with Brandon Invergo but his latest post on gnu-misc-discuss makes me want to say "fuuuuuuuuuuuuck you"

re: gnu 

I think the emerging strategy of just not recognizing rms as gnu's leader and creating new policy and leadership structure is a good move. if rms isn't gonna budge, go around him.

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re: gnu 

@mplammers a consistent pattern of behavior over many years that has made certain groups of feel unwelcome in the free software community, women in particular.

re: gnu 

> feel unwelcome ... women in particular

But that's not enough is it?
He criticises governments, industries and religions. He is attacking the trillion dollar surveillance industry.

That's why we need more than rumors. Where can I read about the facts? Are there actual accusations against him?

Last time I read accusations, they later turned out to be about a completely different person. That's the kind of tactics that make me suspicious.

@mplammers @dthompson If anything, those actors benefit from GNU remaining a boys' club.

@clacke @dthompson If anything, they benefit from his removal, regardless his gender.

@mplammers @dthompson Let me rephrase myself: They benefit from GNU being limited in its growth.

We know from people's statements that they have chosen not to contribute because they didn't feel comfortable with the environment.
@mplammers @dthompson Here's one.…

I don't keep a file. There's the women at CSAIL that had strategies for avoiding him.

@clacke @dthompson
> Here's one
I've read the whole thing and there is very little there.

@mplammers @clacke not our job to do homework for you. RMS has done lots of shitty things over years and has absolutely driven people away, both people that never contributed because of it and people that got sick of it.

@dthompson @clacke > RMS has done lots of shitty things

Which shitty things did he do? Where can I read the facts?

@mplammers @dthompson There is a person saying they rejected free software for open source because of the attitudes they saw there, that's all. There is no smoking gun, only a long term pattern of driving people away.

But I don't see any point in continuing this back and forth. You see the signs of evil corporate subversion, I see genuine members a community wanting that community to grow up. We're not going to see the same thing.

@clacke @dthompson > You see the signs of evil corporate subversion

Don't put words in my mouth.

@mplammers @dthompson Ok, your position is slightly more subtle. You are suspicious of what's going on, and you are insinuating that there is a connection to powerful interests that want him gone.

Maybe you don't think they're evil, so I admit I drew a bit of a broad stroke while putting your position in plain terms.

Anyway, I'm out.

@clacke @dthompson No, that is not my position here. Please stop misrepresenting my position. My question is much simpler. Where are the facts?

@clacke @dthompson > wanting that community to grow up

I want that too.

I believe growing up means protecting long time community members by hearing both sides.

It's not my homework to find evidence for the claims you guys are making.

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