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Day 16 of the 2021 Series:

Stallman has returned. Some see this as a good thing, but I just can't get behind that.

mikestone.me/richard-stallman-

@mike Here's my two cents on that whole spiel: if he's back in so soon, I doubt he was ever more than an arms-length away.

@scylla It does seem to suggest that the initial resignation was probably more lip service than anything actually real. You're right there.

@mike I don't like RMS as a person but many of his ideas are at least worth listening to, for example free software. Personally I don't really care if he's apart if the FSF or not at this point the FSF doesn't really do anything anyway from what I can see. And having so fat dude stand on a stage and yell big tech is bad at people who came to hear him speak who probably already share his opinion on that isn't helping anything. Gotta find new ways to spread the message.

@koreymoffett I agree. Some of his ideas are worth listening to, but some very much are not. That's why placing him in a position of authority and leadership where he can implement his ideas without some form of oversight is problematic.

@mike Yeah, i can agree most of his ideas are kinda off but all ideas should be heard, if it's out there like most of his ideas it will be checked and shut down as hes not being made president only being put on the board of directors. But i can honestly see both sides of this argument. Personally i don't care though.

Also, just so we are clear I am by no means trying to defend him, I don't like the guy and i disagree with at least 90% of what he says.

@mike I’ve never been a fan of RMS as a person. That said, if you want to go around accusing someone of bad things, try doing it without being an ageist yourself.

Also I didn’t have time to read it in detail, but your link to RMS quotes appears to be a litany of left-leaning geopolitical statements... hardly the proof of pedophilia hinted at. Maybe it’s in there, but a better reference is needed.

@rcode3 A better reference? I'm not sure what that would be. The link is to stallman.org, and is Richard Stallman's personal political notes. The list "prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality, possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia" is a direct copy and paste, and can be found less than 10 lines into the page. Or you can hit CTRL-F, paste it in, and the browser will take you right to it.

@mike Yes, a better reference. Like this one: blog.dachary.org/2020/02/10/ho

I've never liked RMS as a person. He's a jerk. But his cancelling was not about justice. It was about his old foes settling old scores.

@rcode3 That's not a better reference. It's an opinion piece (not unlike my own). Ironically for your claim that I need a better reference for my Stallman quote, Dachary uses the exact same site for his own Stallman quotes. My quote here:

stallman.org/archives/2003-mar

Dachary's quotes here:

stallman.org/archives/2019-jul
stallman.org/archives/2018-jul

So what do you think makes this "better" other than the opinion expressed by the author more accurately mirrors your own?

@mike Your blog post consists of "this is guy is old, therefore he sucks" and a link to his rather lengthy list of quotes of which only a few are relevant and none are placed into context. So yes, the link I provided you is much more relevant.

Here's a better piece that puts this all into much better perspective. wetheweb.org/post/cancel-we-th

And FTR, I think RMS is a jerk. But that's irrelevant

@rcode3 That's, again, an opinion piece that pulls quotes from the exact same place I did. But OK, I updated my post to include some extra "context" for people who are having difficulty finding the quotes I'm referencing.

@mike Well he IS the Free Software Movement imho.
And calling someone out for his beard and age is smoething I thought we are over it.
The FSF needs him more than ever, since he is a constant for free software without compromise. A wing against those who cheaply sell those principles for fun using proprietary codecs, code etc. In the middle of these two lies the good way, imho. But without someone like Stallman, the FSF goes the way of Ubuntu.

@ryo I'd disagree. Stallman may have been the catalyst for the free software movement, but I think it will continue with or without him.

RMS 

@mike wtf
> The nominee is quoted as saying that if the choice of a sexual partner were protected by the Constitution, "prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality, possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia" also would be. He is probably mistaken, legally--but that is unfortunate. All of these acts should be legal as long as no one is coerced. They are illegal only because of prejudice and narrowmindedness.

RMS 

@mike

You should be quoting the other lines, which are disturbing and actually made by stallman

The nominee in that quote sbove refers to the then attorney general of alabama (the caveman) that was nominated to the supreme court by by pres. bush senior (dubya) in the early 2000's

The caveman had been quoted to say

if the choice of a sexual partner were protected by the Constitution, "prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality, possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia" also would

Stallman opposed his nomination, then let his mouth run with it

Stallman did in later interviews say he was wrong in how he responded






@ORDER

RMS 

@Jase I think "let his mouth run with it" is the most generous interpretation of Stallman's statement I've heard.

@ORDER

RMS 

@mike

Yeah, it is a deliberate over simplification, I was pretty certain it did not warrant further embellishment

I am not convinced those things were wriiten with malicious intent

I suspect that outside of his areas of expertise the the man is simply an idiot with supremly questionable social communication skills, and a tendency to dig conversatonal holes

@ORDER

RMS 

@Jase Oh, I don't think they were written with malicious intent. I just question the wisdom of placing an individual with such questionable judgement in a leadership role in a place like the FSF. Or anywhere really.

@ORDER

RMS 

@mike

On that we agree, however a lot of what is being said about him reaches into an exercise of character assassination, he is not the evil some are making him out to be, especially in the petitions against him, which are based around speculation and acusation.

The FSF members are the only ones that can really make an organisational change, if thats what folks against his appointment want they should not leave the FSF, but encourage others to join it as members and make their voices heard from within.

Anything else is more akin to shouting at a brick wall, a lot of noise

@ORDER

RMS 

@Jase Honestly, his own words are much more damning than anything I've read in the petitions I've seen.

I can see your logic regarding membership to the FSF, but I also get no impression there's flexibility on this matter. As members, they're more inclined to listen to you, but if enough people drop their membership then they're forced to listen to their wallets.

Neither is a particularly good choice in this particular instance since it is so polarizing.

@ORDER

RMS 

@mike

I don't think there is a good solution here.

I know he's not my kinda person, but find that some of the things being thrown around go beyond reasonable measures of disagreement.

I suspect this situation will now buy some parties a measure of social justice leverage to cause more splintering.

Seems to me that while 'big tech' is buying influence in open source, that the real danger to the free software community is from within.

If we dont get our shit together it may only be a blip in history





@ORDER

@mike yeah, his pro-pedo views are pretty gross.

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