@brandon if encryption isn't needed (which is the case for a MUC public chatroom), most clients are just fine, like the IRC ones.
@kzimmermann I just looked up MUC and that sounds like IRC functionality is an "extension" of a client, as in a plugin. Is that right? I'm not sure if I understood that correctly
@brandon not sure? Maybe it is, since lotsa things in xmpp are extensions. But all my clients on phone, cli and desktop support it by default
I know that to host one the server must have the capability enabled, and perhaps even a subdomain to host the rooms. Prosody has it.
@kzimmermann I'll have to check Proody out. I haven't researching how to actually setting up my own server, so this is good to know.
@Mundon ejabberd scales better IIRC, but prosody was real easy to set up at home, especially after EFF's certbot came up to also easily add your TLS certificate. Definitely give it a try!
@KitKat wait how is room ownership handled in Matrix? Several instances can "own" a chatroom? That would be a powerful, if pretty complex, feature.
And I frankly don't see any difference in usability between OMEMO encryption and Matrix's double-ratchet encryption. Though client *support* for encryption is indeed a larger issue for XMPP than it is for Matrix.
Ownership is shared between the Matrix servers that have people in the room (which soon (TM) will be even able to run on the devices of the users).
MEGOLM is a group native encryption alg, i.e. msgs are encrypted for the group instead of single sessions. This makes it possible to encrypt messages only once and easily gain synced history across devices by just sharing encryption keys with new ones. The same can happen with new group members (if sharing history is desired)
Additionally, you can verify people instead of their devices.
This means you can add and remove sessions however you like and use them right away - instead of having to meet with your contacts before adding the device (while still ensuring that the device is yours).
This all makes it very comfortable to communicate (securely).
This might be some ok-boomer lore in internet time, but back then there was only one usable client (Riot) and few homeservers. It was incredibly bloated (1GB RAM for the client) and OLM E2EE was very flaky. I don't know how much Matrix has improved since then, but I hope it's better. Actually I should give it a new try, too.
@kzimmermann I use both. But I prefer XMPP for the same reasons just explained before. The other reason I don't like Matrix at all is because it's company driven and I normally trust a lot of rest of companies good faith.
I thing community should give XMPP a try. I know since 2006 and I don't know why that amazing protocol has never been popular.
It's been popular for some time now, just under the hood... but most companies dropped down XMPP support
@kzimmermann I still haven't figured out how XMPP would be better than Matrix for most users.
I've tried asking about it's bridging capabilities but they seem to be lacking.
I also haven't found a client comparison that would demo a XMPP client that is better than current Matrix clients.
"Better" is of course subjective but I haven't seen reason to switch yet.
XMPP is one of the good guys, the real enemy is centralized IM's.
@cos and I don't disagree with you! Matrix is indeed the more "complete" package and integration of features, but note how I said that xmpp is *simpler.*
To recreate the simple text-based support env we see on IRC, xmpp and Matrix are at the same level. But xmpp requires less resources to implement and the setup (for something like prosody for ex) is a cinch.
And for a client that is easy to use and as easy as the IRC kiwiirc webUI, have a look into Converse.js
@ttyS1 interesting. I once did an encrypted chat group (phones + desktops) with my family and actually worked pretty well. But eventually they dropped it back to whatsapp and the experiment ended.
But yeah, on average encrypted group chats are a little shaky on XMPP. Unencrypted MUCs, though, are pretty usable, and resemble IRC in usability.
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