I never liked #Telegram in first place.
Link by @thenewoil ne
You might want to define what you mean by “realistic expectation”. Because the #XMPP scenario is fundamentally not less vulnerable.
Each platform has slightly different security properties, but for other than casual consumer uses, “nothing at all” is indeed the safe solution.
(XMPP user and former implementor of solutions here)
@0 yeah, I understand it's hard to "standardize" all the same security practices along a federated network, I think that's partly why things like Signal opt not to federate.
At least using something implemented on the client means we can leverage away part of trust of a server operator. This does not makes the communication stack flawless, though, as you said.
@kzimmermann It literally says that there won't be ads in chats, but will have some ad options for channels (that channel owners used via 3rd parties anyways)
On the contrary, it seems Telegram has found a good balance to support development and server infrastructure for 500M users without turning into another Facebook.
XMPP is 100% free, but have you ever thought who's running the infrastructure? Can we really expect end-users to run their own servers? And if we had single-digit users per server, would s2s connections scale to 500M users? I highly doubt it.
@codewiz thank you for the insight. I understand he had a tough choice to make.
On the other hand, though, on of the strengths behind a federation is that nobody needs to be the "backbone" of it. This is not to say that everyone easily can, will or even wants to self-host, but the possibility at least is there - in the code.
But of course, being free to choose is even more important than federating, so if you like Telegram, by all means keep using it - it's just that I won't.
@kzimmermann @thenewoil Years before the Internet became available outside universities, I was running a #FidoNet node, a network of #BBS which allowed users to exchange mail and post to discussion groups.
We were volunteer-driven and funded by donations. More hierarchical and more bureaucratic than the #fediverse: we had elections for administrative roles, a long policy everyone had to agree to, voting for policy changes...
FidoNet reached 20k nodes at its apogee.
But it's harder because user expectations are so damn high. You can't just give a free email account to make them happy. And then there's abuse. Lots of it. If you run a wiki or any publishing platform, it will be filled with spam. And so, running a free service today has become a tedious, thankless job today 😞
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