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Hey Fedi, do you know if there is a federated (perhaps even -powered) cooking recipe hosting service? If not, let's 👏 make 👏 this 👏 happen!

I hate modern recipe websites. All of them are full with ads and tracking. The leading recipe hosting in my country loads over 30 different trackers, and that's excluding the ads!

@kytta

Don't know a federated one, no. Sounds like a great idea :)

@kytta this has been suggested before (but I can't find that toot).

There I also mentioned that a more generic solution might handle that use case.. and a gazillion others: A federated PubSub server app, where publishers send linked data to according to a Profile (in this case a Recipe). They might be vetted on the server by someone, and then they federate to other instances interested in that information. Subscribers, based on specific metadata, receive the content to use for whatever purpose.

@Crazypedia @kytta ingredients, dietary restrictions, culture hashtags I love it!

@saenzjj @kytta if it's a #recipe, it should probably have a title, some free-form text, an area to list ingredients and tools, an area for step by step instructions, and support for pictures, yeah? So long as it's all markdown or html, that should fit in an #ActivityPub post just fine.
Maybe use multiple CW in a single post and rename them to hide some of the sections?
#mastodev

@saenzjj @kytta and if you're building it mostly from the ground up on #ActivityPub, you could build in a UI that supports different search, save and filter options for hashtags and posts, the ActivityPub is really just there to make it easy to share, yeah?

@Crazypedia @saenzjj @kytta

With the extensibility of #ActivityPub, which is a #LinkedData protocol you could directly exchange Recipes as the message type (instead of Notes with plain-text, markdown or html).

Every field in your recipe is machine-readable, and can be used in powerful search and filter UI's.

If you then also used a well-known vocabulary for recipes, other apps and services can use the data right away.

I never use Google Search normally, but they are doing that too..

@kytta @Crazypedia @humanetech you both sound much more intelligent and familiar with this concept than I am. I would be a huge supporter and contribute in whichever means will help

@humanetech also, structured data (JSON-LD or RDFa) in HTML views for even better parsing

schema.org/Recipe

@humanetech @Crazypedia @saenzjj @kytta I'd suggest cooklang ( cooklang.org/ ) as it supports pretty much anything people here wished for and is pretty readable imo.

@Crazypedia @kytta Ingredients need a full-on #database, as there is a many-many relation between ingredients and recipes. Also ingredients and nutrients (see USDA Food Data Central database). Add to that a table mapping FDC (above) ID's to bar codes (UPC or EAN) and you're talking some informational empowerment. #pubwan

@n8chz @kytta nice! USDA should be helpful guidance and experience to lean on 😁 what data do you think would be most helpful to those reading or looking for the recipe, and how would that be handled in a federated post?

@n8chz @kytta PS I work supporting a food industry business, so I'm a little familiar with USDA in being a regulatory body and having specific and strict legal objectives in the way they wrote things. It's a little burdensome for a casual home user. That blog post is 100% right about the amount of data mapping and entry 😅 defiantly something that should maybe have a matching algorithm for suggesting ingredient entries

@Crazypedia @kytta If the data live in a database, scaling recipes and converting systems of measurement become trivial. If database incorporates food composition database, reporting nutrient information becomes super-automated (but this is of course a very inexact science, including on-label). If community has resources to keep tabs on prices by time/place (a big #pubwan if), cost per serving is an automatable feature.

@Crazypedia @kytta In a federated post? That's an added layer of challenge. The databases I envision seem like they want to be somewhat centralized, for a single source of truth. In Mastodon (from what I can see) hashtags are searchable while toot text in general is not, so as suggested in prior toot, ingredients as hashtags is a good place to start. As far as I know, Mastodon only supports single-hashtag searches. If there's a fediverse way to do multi-hashtag searches, that would help a lot.

@Crazypedia @kytta The classic "what recipe(s) fit(s) this combination of ingredients" type query is very important. Perhaps something like table joins to other data could be effected by hashtags such as #price or #nutritient.

@n8chz @Crazypedia @kytta That sounds potentially way too US-centric though, as far as I'm aware there are pretty big differences between certain types of food in the US vs for example Europe

@hazelnot @Crazypedia @kytta USDA is just a fer'instance. Other national governments conduct such nutrient assays. Thailand, for example: inmu2.mahidol.ac.th/thaifcd/ho

@n8chz @Crazypedia @kytta it should support the full Google recipe api so modern recipe apps (I use paprika) can scrape them. Totally agree recipe sites now are 99% anecdotal storytelling and advertising and 1% recipe developers.google.com/search/d

@A8bit @Crazypedia @kytta Hmm this format seems to hardcode a lot of things but JSON descriptions of this type could be generated ad hoc. For using the JSON for searches you'd want a way for one particular configuration (for example, "multiple") of each recipe to be "canonical."

"recipeIngredient": [
"2 cups of flour",

My instincts are to have "2", "cups", and "flour" as separate fields, so I'd rather build output for Google API from internal structure, not other way around.

@n8chz @A8bit @Crazypedia you need to separate the structured Web layout and the actual recipe data.

My plan is to develop a file format for recipe sharing; one that, when paired with correct tools, would support portions calculation and unit conversion. The Google's API is only a bunch of tags for the HTML page, so that Google just knows which fields mean what

@kytta What we need is a place to swap recipes.

@kytta you mean without the lifestory to scroll through before the recipe?

@VincentTunru @kytta Hey I'm curious about these use-cases. Why would you want a recipes app powered by Activity Pub? I've seen other people mentioning this type of thing before, but AFAIK Activity Pub is intended for social network-type apps, and a recipes manager doesn't fit that description. Is it in order to add comments to recipes and such? Or if you want to share the recipes, would posting a toot with a link to the recipe be enough?

@noeldemartin @VincentTunru the idea comes partly from Funkwhale. I want a hybrid solution, both a private cookbook one can keep for themselves, but also with a social element. Likes and comments are thus nice to have.

It doesn't have to be ActivityPub per se, but I really would want it to be federated

@noeldemartin @kytta @VincentTunru

> AFAIK Activity Pub is intended for social network-type apps, and a recipes manager doesn't fit that description

I'm curious about this observation. Isn't most online collaborative interaction social in nature? And the exchange of recipes in themed communities, groups of friends, discuss, improve, review, share, a real-life social experience to model?

Wonder if your notion on the use case of ActivityPub is colored by well-established platforms we now have?

@humanetech @noeldemartin @kytta @VincentTunru agree! If there're options for books, why wouldn't recipes work, considering how social it is to learn, share, improve... Recipes with others? What makes it different from coding?

@ccamara @humanetech @kytta @VincentTunru I see, I guess my notion of ActivityPub is indeed colored by the apps I've used or seen :).

I did know about Funkwhale, but I don't understand how it's using ActivityPub either so I guess I'll take a look. I do like the idea of enabling recipe variants, modifications, and such.

@ccamara @humanetech @kytta @VincentTunru The only question that comes to mind is that all of this needs to happen in the server-side, right? At the moment, I am building my apps completely in the client-side, so I'm not sure how I'd manage to do anything with ActivityPub under that constraint.

In any case, I don't think I'll look into this anytime soon, because I want to focus on finishing the first version. But thanks for the ideas :).

@noeldemartin @ccamara @kytta @VincentTunru

Not necessarily. The Client-to-Server part of the specs corresponds to the idea of 'thick clients, generic servers', not unlike XMPP. This is a very interesting aspect of AS/AP, but also where things are most experimental pioneering still.

@noeldemartin @VincentTunru @kytta The Gallery of Regrettable Foods is pretty much a social commentary on recipies. Plus folks like to share variants, vegan modifications, ask for alternatives, and collect them in themes or by ingredients. I could see AP being helpful with that.

@noeldemartin @VincentTunru @kytta An idea would be to have an activity type or flag to indicate that a post contains a recipe. On the recieving side it can then be parsed and added to your recipe book. You might edit it and repost. If it has the same name then it will overwrite the recipe in your followers books.

Things like this would be more interesting because they are not just a silo of recipies, and spread in a more anarcho manner.

#AnarchoCooking

@kytta
In gives the Nextcloud cookbook app. Can this perhaps also share?

@kytta i'm a fan of "Just the F*cking Recipe". it's just a static site where recipes are added by Github pull requests. only federated in the sense that git is federated (you can clone the repo and trivially host it yourself, e.g.), but it's worth something.

https://just-the.recipes/

@kytta yes to all of this!
I regularly cook "from" my phone and most recipe sites OOM Android Chrome on my few-years-old mid-range phone from all the bells, whistles and adds.

@kytta I'd sign up for this! No idea how to build such things but I want in!

@kytta Right now I self-host my recipes using the cookbook app on #nextcloud but it has very limited federation capabilities. github.com/nextcloud/cookbook/

@cwdolunt @kytta I love this app, but the lack of being able to share recipes with other users makes it redundant for my usecase. 😢

@Blort @kytta You can share and federate, but ONLY with other Nextcloud users on instances that share files and have the app installed. So very very limited, nothing like the Fediverse.

@yyp this is what actually inspired me in the first place :)

@kytta the closest I know of is Nextcloud cookbook, apps.nextcloud.com/apps/cookbo

Nextcloud itself is federated but not activitypub, so you'd only be sharing between Nextcloud instances.

@minnix

Nextcloud Social has ActivityPub integrated already... Have you tried sharing a recipe from the Cookbook app via Nextcloud Social ?
@kytta

@julieninthesky @kytta I thought social was abandoned long ago. Is it still working? Or is there another add-on?

@minnix

It shows in the list of available apps and there's also a "social sharing via diaspora" plugin...

@kytta

@julieninthesky @kytta I uninstalled it long ago because it stopped working when I updated NC. Is it still working for you? What version of NC are you on?

@minnix
You're right, the Social app only works on version 21 or lower...

The social share works but there is no direct sharing option from the Cookbook app, only from the files manager.

@kytta

@julieninthesky @kytta I was about to reinstall it when I read your comment lol because I really liked it when I used it. Yeah as far as I know, you can only share your cookbook recipes with other NC users if you're federated with them. My family and I trade recipes this way.

@minnix

Well... All the pieces exists, now they (only) need to be put together 😁

@kytta

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