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The web scam known as Brave browser gets caught, again, doing shady stuff. This time they stuff their affiliate links/code into your searches and URLs so that Brave makes money each time you visit certain sites.

People need to stop using Brave. It's a bad faith actor in the browser market. At this point even Chrome would be preferable.

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@kungtotte @hund I guess it's a bit like shooting the messenger, but would you have an alternative browser to recommend for an older Android telephone? I've tried Chrome and Firefox, and they both piss me off after a while, so I kept going back and forth between them every few years. This last time, when Firefox was crashing more often than not, I switched to Brave to give it a try. So I guess I'm now looking for something that is none of those.

@hund @kungtotte @hund I suppose it's worth a try.

But I'm not a huge fan of the claim that their primary goal is privacy. I would like a browser whose primary goal is rendering web pages.

I feel that privacy, while important, should not take complete precedence over the intended purpose of the application. If "not leaking information to a website" was more important to me than seeing the website, then I would not need a browser at all to accomplish that.

@eviloatmeal @hund @kungtotte @hund privacy browser renders the web pages faster than any web browser I've tried,sometimes it could break some sites, so you need to ckick a botton and enable js, but seriously, i is light and fast!

@techit @hund @kungtotte @hund Hmm... I don't know. I've got a feeling that Privacy Browser and I are not going to get along...

(Yes, I went into the settings and turned enabled all the cookies and JavaScript and stuff that was disabled by default before taking this screenshot.)

@techit @hund @kungtotte @hund Like I said, privacy or not, I really need a browser that renders pages correctly.

@eviloatmeal @hund @kungtotte @hund first of all you shouldn't turn off everithing , do it when you have to.
privacy browser is more like a secondery fast browser that I use mostly to read articles and browse the internet without lots of ads, faster, and more secure.
it isn't for watching youtube videos, you could use newpipe for that, it is great for that!

@techit @hund @kungtotte @hund For better or for worse, the web isn't just plaintext with font tags and horizontal rules anymore. I'm a proponent of the idea of steering the web toward a more minimal, pragmatic medium as much as anyone. But just like I'm in favor of destroying all cars, even though they are necessary in this car-centric world we have built, a working browser is necessary on this multimedia-centric web we have built.

@eviloatmeal @hund @kungtotte @hund you could try bromite if firefox isn't for you, but again, privacy browser is the best for reading stuff in the internet without much to worry about your privacy as much as other browsers like chrome

@techit @hund @kungtotte @hund Yeah, I'm trying Bromite now. Seems a little unstable, so far. It crashed while downloading a file. Will keep trying it out.

I don't have anything against Firefox, it was just not working well on my device the last time I tried, and I can't imagine it will be any better the more it moves forward and the older my device becomes.

@eviloatmeal @techit @hund @kungtotte @hund Fwiw, I would totally get on-board with a new standard where webmasters can voluntarily provide a low tech version of their site

@OldTinfoil @techit @hund @kungtotte @hund You don't need a standard for that, you can just omit all the useless fluff like JavaScript, tracking cookies, and analytics, while making the site, and you will end up with a "low tech" version of the site that actually loads quickly and works well.

@eviloatmeal @techit @hund @kungtotte @hund Well, yes. But would also alienate the vast majority of users at the same time.

@OldTinfoil @techit @hund @kungtotte @hund I doubt your users will feel alienated if you remove tracking and analytics from your site. The only difference they will experience is that the site loads faster, and they get fewer creepily-targeted advertisements in the future.

I also doubt that anyone would complain if you remove some of the JavaScript that makes things jump, slide, and somersault around the page when they click on stuff. That's just annoying to begin with.

@hund @techit @kungtotte @hund Hmm, I tried all the Android and iOS ones, didn't make a difference.

Don't worry, I'm going to try Bromite for now.

@techit @hund @kungtotte @hund Bromite? It renders pages as expected. Nothing to complain about there. We will see with a few months of use if it is stable.

@eviloatmeal @techit @kungtotte @hund@linuxrocks.online It looks like you're doing something wrong.

@hund @techit @kungtotte @hund Probably. But I don't know if it's worth investing my time and your effort to comb through all the possibilities just to figure out if that is the case, or if it's not going to work.

Some things are fun to tinker with, some things I just want them to do what they are supposed to, and not worry about how or why.

A browser, much like a toaster, I have no desire to stick a fork into.

@kungtotte @hund how is this different to Firefox making money of search queries?

Personally, I have no problem with it.

@kev @kungtotte There's a big difference between getting paid for including a search engine by default in an honest matter and making money of users by hijacking their traffic without their consent and then trying to cover it up by deleting users comments when they where caught.

And no, I don't like Firefox either, so no bias here. :)

@hund @kungtotte deleting comments? From the tread I saw on Twitter, the CEO was very transparent and agreed to make it opt in very quickly. He seemed cooperative to me.

There are no privacy implications by Brave doing this, and it’s a simple way to support the browser. I still see little difference between this and FF search revenue.

@kev @hund I'm not concerned with privacy so much in this case, more the scummy business practices. Getting paid to have Google as the first choice in a drop-down is transparent and built to be configurable from the start. Users see where their searches end up and they can opt out immediately should they want to.

Here, Brave try to sneak their referral ID under the noses of their users with no way of opting out. Once caught they will add opt-out... 1/n

@kev @hund ... But it takes time to implement and then even more time to roll out to all Brave users. In the meantime they can keep making money in this way. FF had a search engine drop-down from day 1.

It's also not the first time Brave are shady like this. They replaced people's ads with their own BAT ad things, supposedly gathering money that content creators were to receive only those creators saw none of that coin unless *they* took the initiative in registering with Brave. 2/n

@kev @hund None of which was preceded with any kind of notice from Brave. It was up to these people to find out for themselves, no email, no nothing. IIRC, the money was also forfeit after a certain amount of time if nobody claimed it, but I'm not sure of that last part.

Once this was found out, Eich promised to change and behave better, policy changes were implemented etc. That's shady business practices and if Microsoft or Google did it we'd burn them in the streets.

3/n

@kev @hund I wasn't really joking about Chrome up-thread either.

They mine all of your data so they can sell more ads, but they're entirely upfront about it. Their EULAs all say that they hoover up every bit of data, they say they scan your Gmail account, and if you're OK with that then go ahead and use their products.

There's no sneaking anything under the radar until they get caught and then fixing it afterwards.

I wouldn't be surprised if Brave sneaks a crypto-miner in next...

@kungtotte @hund yeah, I see what you’re saying. I agree - it’s scummy business practice, no getting away from that.

There’s a lot to say about this. I think I might jot my thoughts down in a longer form.

TL;DR though - I can see why people are pissed, but some are spreading misinformation like they’re tracking us, or that it’s DNS spoofing/poisoning. Neither of which is true.

I really enjoy these interactions.

@kev @kungtotte @hund I'm not too invested in the Brave controversy, but from my outsider perspective, it seems like they're solving one problem and replacing it with another problem.

If they were to gain a serious browser market share, it seems like they'd do even worse things than what Google / Chrome does now, or what Microsoft / IE did back in the day: Trying to control the web and funnel everyone into an ecosystem.

If you could speak to that point in a blog post, I'd be very interested.

@kungtotte @kev @hund let's not forget that Google was one of the primary supporters Firefox for years and even had people on their board of directors and that also Firefox was directly mentioned by the Vault 7 leak as actively working with the CIA and NSA, whereas Chrome was mentioned in those documents as resisting the govt's actions.

I've been reading that leak very meticulously. It doesn't mean that Chrome is safe, but I won't ever use Firefox.

@kungtotte

Don’t use those other open source browsers with all that telemetry. They can’t be trusted!

Instead, use our browser, which is closed source, but uh, we totally don’t heheh do any telemetry heheh you can trust us heh

@kungtotte I don’t get why people keep using it either. Is Eich still a CEO at Brave? It’s sad if he’s letting the browser turn into this.

@kungtotte there are no GOOD actors in the browser market, other than niche foss projects

google owns your data, mozilla sells it to adzerk unless you or your software distribution goes to the trouble of disabling/stripping pocket functionality (which requires about:config tweaks, iirc), a bunch of smaller vendors use revenue-generating search engines by default, etc.

@kungtotte I tried to use it at one point, but the phone app spams me with advertisements
@kungtotte I mean, it's decent, but I'd much rather wait for bold browser or something similar because i don't feel safe using it
@kungtotte but really the biggest salespoint of brave is it's adblocking but the adblocking is terrible so when i tried brave i also used ublock origin

@kungtotte Ioaded that POS a few years ago and found it to be near unusable. Total garbage that choked on even simple web pages.

@kungtotte yeah what's up with everyone using it for the adblocker? Just slapping ublock onto firefox works just as well. There's also firefox focus for mobile which is open source.

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