@kev That's too bad. I understand needing your machine to just work so you can get on with life. For my workflow Void Linux enables that, and I struggle to get the same flow from my Windows VM at work. To each their own!

@kev I'm totally in agreement with you here. I happen to have a Fedora desktop right now, because my needs are slim and it doesn't give me any friction. But if that changes, Windows will be coming back to it.

I only regret the upcoming Windows 11, with its artificially strict hardware requirements.

@tulpa yeah, I recently upgraded my desktop and my new motherboard doesnt have a TPM, so it looks like no Windows 11 for me unless they lighten up the requirements. Ah well, I’m quite happy with 10.

@tulpa TPM's are absoulutely essential nowadays for security. Problem is it doesn't support alternative OS properly.

@Dashtop TPM, I have. I'm annoyed that 7th gen CPU isn't new enough.

@kev sad to hear you've switched to windows. If it works better for you, then that's all that matters ;) Personally though, mostly, but not just, because windows is a proprietary tool which exists to make money first, and help people second, is probably my main reason for not using it. Thus far linux has been good to me (generally no issues encountered at all) and i hope it stays that way. Please do share your experiences with windows though :)

@kev As a person who left Linux in favour of MacOS in 2014, I say I would rather to be back to Linux and now I would say that I am not thinking about going back to "dark side" again.

I guess everyone needs a breath and I hope you come back some day.

GNU/Linux has its shits, especially in the desktop, but I guess I could help to make it better or at least do my best.

@kev Sadly this is the state of Linux on the desktop. It's great on the server and in scientific applications, but just too many bugs and issues on desktop to be reliable enough for production.

This is why my MacBook now runs MacOS Big Sur instead of various previous Linux distros. Just always had various issues with every distro and countless hours wasted sorting it. I have Linux and Windows running in VMware Player and it serves my needs.

@danielfgom yeah it’s a real shame. Just feels like death by a thousand cuts.

@danielfgom @kev Your solution is your problem. Your closed-source system is golden cage where you can feel comfortable but only to the extent your vendor let you. Your freedom is pure illusion.

@miklo bullshit. If I can do all the things I need to do, with little to no friction then it's all good with me.

@danielfgom

@kev no point in raising a stink. You want convenience and windows delivers that.

@fedops @kev I don't have the same experience at all with Linux on the desktop. But I've got a System76. I might also just stick with the standard basic apps and have no issues. Corporate Windows on the other hand. I hear Windows 10 for home is actually quite good

@MrDers @fedops @kev For the most part, Windows in a large environment is pretty well behaved, and does what it’s told. It’s far easier to manage than people realise. Mainly because that’s precisely what it was designed for.

Windows 10 for home use is similar, providing you’re not actually using the Home version. That thing can be a pain in the backside.

@kev @gray @MrDers @fedops it... depends. There's a lot of security solutions for macOS and Windows that are not very well behaved, and those tend to be found in corporate deployments. So in such environments, Linux might be both trickier to set up and yet more efficient and reliable

@michel_slm @kev @gray @MrDers @fedops I use Windows, macOS, and Linux (Fedora) concurrently. In general, my Linux experience considerably improved when I switched my Linux environments to Fedora, because the fresh package set and more consistently working desktop experience. That said, I still use Windows and macOS for some other cases too, even though I primarily use Fedora Linux.

@MrDers me neither, but everybody's requirements are different. Which is why there are different tools for the job. No point in turning it into a religion.

@kev

@kev I've always had issues with Debian/Ubuntu distros. tried manjaro and a lot of these issues are not there anymore.
Pacman is good. Rollover updates are nice.
i3 and tiling wm in general are briliant
On the other hand, I'm using windows at work and comparing to my personal laptop at home with manjaro, I'm more productive with manjaro
Anyway, no one-solution fits all, each one has different definition to productivity, and easiness.

@kev @samired same experience here. But I agree that this might not work for everyone.

@kev Your Linux experience is my Win 10 experience 😅
My gaming PC is running this OS and its behavior is absolutely random. (random reboots, desktop icons never at the same place, softwares installed without my consent, never remembers the sound settings when plugged on home theater for playing on TV...)

Anyway, your feedback about Appimage and Snap is the reason why I avoid them when I can. They are the same disease as Electron apps 🤮

@Wivik it’s crazy how we can all have such varying experiences with the same OSs. I suppose it’s good that we have choice. 😊

@kev I often say : "if computer science was hard science, I would be unemployed". 😁

@kev It is always interesting to me how each person has such a different experience with their desktop.
I have far less issues running Linux than I ever did running Windows. And I have some of the same use cases you do.

@Zach777 I literally just said the same thing to someone else haha. It’s good that we have choice and can find what works for us.

@kev But, but… this was supposed to be the Year of Linux on the Desktop.

@kev
some application are easier to run on windows, others are easier to run on linux.
At a time I was sort of depending on applications that were easy to run on windows but not on linux, I'd either run them in vm or had dual boot.

For connecting my phone with my laptop I used KDE-connect. I could not find a solution for windows that worked that well and easy at that time. Under linux you just go to your packet manager and choose install.

@kev but what I actually wanted to tell you:
Promoting windows sucks! :-p
It can make sense to use windows for some cases, but claiming that windows just works compared to linux is false.

For my use case linux is easier to use then windows.

@kev Use what does the job for you, that's my outlook, I use Linux because it does the job for me but for others I understand that my not be the case.

@kev No actually it wasn't intended but I'm happy it turned out that way haha

@kev Congratulations 😻

In 2004, I switched to Mac OS X. In 2010, I switched to Windows 7. Now I have a Windows 10 laptop. I also use MS Word. I want to get things done and have a happy life.

Now I can edit .docx, at least. MS Word Online and LibreOffice are not 100% compatible with MS Word on Windows. I can use LINE, which doesn't support GNU/Linux. Windows has a driver of an old low-end scanner too. Using Gimp, Inkscape, Firefox, Emacs is convenient.

However, I had more problems.

1. My laptop with Windows 10 crashed so many times per day for 2-3 years. I guess it wasn't Microsoft's fault since after buying this laptop for ~2 years, I installed a new GPU driver again, now it doesn't crash too often. Still I cannot get this laptop sleep. In fact, it sleeps but it doesn't wake up.

2. Sometimes my computer didn't work after I ran Windows Update, for example, I couldn't use WiFi.

3. I failed to install some apps from Microsoft Store. Maybe it is good now. I didn't try again.

4. I don't know how to use MS Word. I know some basics but I don't know how to fix problems when documents don't look right. So I still use LibreOffice in most cases.

5. Terminal emulators on Windows don't work well with Thai character.

6. Software development was nightmare. Now I can use WSL2. But it made my SSD full. Using Visual Studio Code from Windows to develop software in WSL2 is complicated.

7. Adjusting a mic 🎙 is still difficult. And it is important since I have many online meetings. The app looks like it was from Windows 2000.
@kev Nowadays, I use both Windows and GNU/Linux on my computers.

However, I stop using Ubuntu. I didn't like when I use .deb and it still run snap. I switched to Fedora Linux but still have many problems. Sometimes Flatpak is too strict, for example, Telegram cannot access a folder that I want. I have to run Flatseal to fine tune, which is boring. Software (a front-end of package manager) doesn't word anymore.

@kev I won’t beat a dead horse here but I’ll say I could have written the same article for the same reasons. 😂😂

It’s why I have Linux in a laptop to specifically dork around in and break, and I use Windows on my desktop.

@wholesomedonut
Funny how different people and I would dare even say cultures have sometimes opposite viewes on the same matter

I have the same setup as you, I just use it opposite.
Desktop windows for messing around and a laptop linux for work
@kev

@kev
*points to self*
Same except macOS not Windows.

@kev

I just want my OS to get out of the way so I can crack on and get shit done.

That’s why I use Linux.

All the work I do on my computer just works better on Linux. In some cases, they’re specifically made for Linux and getting them to work on Windows is suboptimal, or just a pain in the butt.

If I want to get real work done, I use Linux. Anything else and I’m just fighting with my computer.

@kev @danjones000 I have the same complaints about both Windows and Linux as desktop OSes, which is why I use macOS. It doesn’t really matter to me what others use, as long as they’re using the OS they feel makes them the most productive. A good OS should help you do things quicker, and the answer to what’s “good” is different for everyone.

@ramsey

Absolutely. Personally, I find myself slower with macOS, and feel like I’m constantly working around it, rather than with it, but I understand why some people prefer it. Likewise with Windows.

@kev

@kev A bit sad, but definitely understandable. Maybe later on, Linux will catch up again and you'll return.

I will also add comment that you've set up a good community here; the discourse remains respectful from of a choice that is sort of anti-FOSS.

@kev Let me put it this way: You really have to work on your motivational speeches for improving the Linux desktop. They are not necessarily what one would call empowering :/

Either way, hope you enjoy the next ride in the Windows world.

@sheogorath hahaha I've never been known for my motivational speeches.

Incessant moaning on the other hand, I'm all over that!

@kev I actually DON’T blame you for wanting to go back to W10 it just works. I am currently running W10 on my Thinkpad T410 and I’m going to try out W11 when it drops!!!

@kev actually it won’t so W10 will stay on it or I may try out Manjaro

@kev I’m actually not too sure if W11 will run but I’m going to try definitely!!!

@kev The time has come, we need a new moderator that actually represents the values of FOSS, you are nothing to me now, I believe there is no better moment to ask you, to give away your position as admin of this mastodon instance.
First it was Jekyll, now its Linux, for all I know, you will host your site on Google's Blogger by tomorrow!
There is no going back, you can leave your ssh keys in a private message for me, I'll try and save whatever's left of this place after such a disaster! /s

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Fosstodon is an English speaking Mastodon instance that is open to anyone who is interested in technology; particularly free & open source software.