I want to tell y'all something I love about .

We're small (<1000 weekly users), but we have a *huge* team of moderators: hub.fosstodon.org/about/the-te There are six of us—more than the team a mastodon.social!

That means that we pretty much always have *somebody* around to moderate.

It also means that no one person speaks for the whole instance. We have a whole team devoted to enforcing our CoC. We might not always agree, but we're all working to make welcoming for everyone

@codesections kev has made it quite clear that he is not, in fact, working to make fosstodon welcoming for everyone. Kick him out or shut up.

@LogicalDash

I disagree.

I disagree with many statements Kev has made in his *personal* capacity. But I also see him—and others—working hard to keep the site running well.

And my broader point is that, since there are six of us, you don't *need* to agree with any one person to be safe and welcome

@codesections a person who disagrees with your own code of conduct is not fit to moderate in accordance with that code of conduct.

Kev's statements make it clear that he doesn't buy into your code of conduct.

If you have him on your mod team at all, you have demonstrated your priorities, and I cannot trust you.

@codesections furthermore, those statements were from his main account, weren't they? How is anyone supposed to tell that they were "personal"?

@LogicalDash @codesections he never made any specific mention of it being in his capacity as admin, didn't say anything about this affecting the admin/moderation of the instance, and he put it behind a CW. If you want to claim that we can't tell it was personal, then I claim just as much evidence that we can't tell it was an admin toot.

Also I fail to see how he is disagreeing with the COC. He was stating an opinion about other people's behaviour.

@kungtotte @codesections
[coc]
Examples of unacceptable behavior by Fosstodon users include:

Personal attacks
Trolling or insulting/derogatory comments
Public or private oppressive language or actions
[/coc]

Telling someone their opinions on their oppression don't matter is itself oppressive; people consider particular forms of language to be oppressive; Kev thinks that doesn't matter; therefore Kev is being oppressive.

@kungtotte @codesections * specifically, /oppressed/ people consider particular forms of language to be oppressive

@kungtotte @codesections

Insulting someone you don't like for their taste in music or whatever, using inappropriate language: offensive

Expressing irritation, however polite, at the things trans people do to get people to gender them correctly: oppressive

@LogicalDash @codesections and do you feel like Kev was speaking out against gendering people correctly? If you think that's true I think you need to take a step back from everything and take a few minutes for yourself before you re-read his toot and see if he actually said that or if your feelings on the matter made you think he said that.

In fact, he never once spoke at all about genders or trans people, so that's something you've added based on your interpretation of his toot.

@kungtotte @LogicalDash @codesections

> and do you feel like Kev was speaking out against gendering people correctly?

Yes. He agreed that pronouns on profiles are “cringe”y.

Follow

@chucker @kungtotte @LogicalDash @codesections FFS here we go again...

I’ll try to explain again...That discussion was about gender references in a person’s bio. It makes me cringe (and it still does) because I personally feel that mentioning one’s gender has no relevance here.

Again, it’s just my opinion. It has nothing to do with my feelings on how someone labels themselves (I couldn’t care less as long as they’re happy) and someone’s gender will NEVER affect a mod action I take.

@kev @kungtotte @LogicalDash @codesections you feel it has “no relevance” in a forum where people talk to each other that someone says “hey, please address me as x”, when you might be inclined to address them as y based on photo, name, whatever?

That seems _quite_ relevant to get a conversation right.

@chucker I would address them by their username, just like I am to you now. If I’m referring to someone else, I tend to use “they” if I’m unsure anyway.

Ipso facto, I feel it’s irrelevant.

I appears you think it’s not irrelevant, I think it is. Neither of us is right, it’s just an opinion.

@kungtotte @LogicalDash @codesections

@kev @chucker @kungtotte @LogicalDash @codesections that sort of thing is WHY i felt the need to have pronouns in my bio. the cringey, masculine-assumed FOSS geek culture that yall throw your toys over anytime someone wants to do things differently. i just am not a part of that.

@jackie I obviously can't talk for anyone else, and I have no context on the example(s) you're referring to.

Personally, I don't recall ever calling you 'dude'; I always thought we had a pretty friendly relationship actually. I enjoyed a lot of your content.

Anyway, if anyone did call you 'dude' I'm sure it was just a mistake.

@chucker @kungtotte @LogicalDash @codesections

@kev @jackie

> Anyway, if anyone did call you 'dude' I'm sure it was just a mistake.

And that right there is why some people put pronouns in their profile. To reduce the potential for mistakes.

@chucker do you check the profile of every person you interract with on Mastodon, before hitting reply? I certainly don't.

Mistakes happen.

If someone has their identity misrepresented in a comment, like 'dude' for example, then that person says 'I actualy identfy as X, can you please refer to me as such in future?' and the person who made the mistake fixes it, what's the issue?

If someone then went on to not respect that, then yeah, there's an issue there.

@jackie

@kev @jackie

> do you check the profile of every person you interract with on Mastodon, before hitting reply?

No, but I also don’t publicly poke fun at the topic while running an instance.

> If someone has their identity misrepresented in a comment, like 'dude' for example, then that person says 'I actualy identfy as X, can you please refer to me as such in future?' and the person who made the mistake fixes it, what's the issue?

The issue is your public comments on the matter.

@kev @chucker yeah i didn't feel comfortable doing this because i could detect that you'd take issue with it and/or not take it seriously, like you've now made explicit.

why's it my responsibility to respond to your default, which makes me feel like i don't belong, when you could just avoid the issue by being respectful?

i hate talking about it now, even. this drives women out of tech but you

JUST
WON'T
LISTEN

even when it happens right in front of you.

@kev @chucker like just do a second's reading or listening before speaking and you might not have to cry about how minorities (and the users that try and protect them) make you feel before they leave your server. or how people are oversensitive to words when you delete their profiles for saying "fuck you" for harbouring people that want to freely use hate speech.

Sign in to participate in the conversation
Fosstodon

Fosstodon is an English speaking Mastodon instance that is open to anyone who is interested in technology; particularly free & open source software.