I dunno, I feel like the LibremOne news is being overhyped.

Talk is a fork of Riot
Mail is a fork of K9
Social is a fork of Tusky
Tunnel is PIA white-labelled

I see nothing new or innovative here, what am I missing?

@kev No, I think you essentially have it. The only thing unique about this is that it's all coming together under a company known for privacy (when it's known at all).

@kev nothing. Except for the fact that Purism has, at this point, branded it as made by them.

@brandon @kev doesn't free software have a long and storied history of projects "forking" only to change the branding? what is so objectionable about it this time?

@greg @kev the fact that there's no mention about sharing the modified source code. K9 might be fine, but Tusky not so much

As well, in the case of forking and changing brand, there's usually some sort of notice or history that can lead one to the original project.

@kev You are right, but it's refreshing that these apps are rebranded and included by default, I guess?

@kev I'm not a big fan of this policy either. I wish they would focus on producing libre hardware instead of diluting their product portfolio with services.

@kev I guess the fact that they bundled them into one easy-to-use, pretty cheap service and they will be included on the Librem devices by default, making it easier to less tech-savvy folks to start using Matrix and Mastodon

@TomDienstbier @kev this seems like their exact goal. To provide one seemless experience, the theming has to be consistent as well.
Tusky as an app works grear, but they'd have to fork it to seemlessly integrate it in a whole package. Same for the other apps.
Still, as mentioned, credit where credit is due, the original developers of those apps should be in a way benefiting from their suite of apps.

@kev I had the same thought. Seems like maybe selling hardware isn't keeping them in business?

@kev it's not new or innovative, but it's still a great thing since Purism as a brand inspires confidence and respects privacy as their core business

@kev Not only do I think there's nothing special here, it's disappointing to me and makes me question my decision to pre-order the librem5. I hate to feel this way, but maybe I'll feel different tomorrow?
My initial impression is that it's an ungenuine marketing strategy that worries me to be the start of a walled garden hidden behind the word open source. I don't want any of my apps bundled and coupled to my hardware.
But again, it's still early, we'll have to wait and see where this goes.

@nebunez @kev I see your point. Given the fact they delayed the launch of the Librem5 twice (to date) leaves no good aftertaste.

@kev I can see where bundling them together instead of making people go out and find all of these by themselves has value. Otherwise, sure, you can get all this stuff somewhere else.

I don't see any issue with it. Plenty of people would have cried foul if they had written their own apps for reinventing the wheel instead of leveraging good existing projects. If they contribute back to upstream then all is good IMO.

@kelbot @mike I completely agree. I don’t have a problem with it at all, I just don’t see where all the hype for this fantastic new service is coming from, as it’s just a collection of forked apps. The lack of attribution on their website isn’t very good either. :(

Note: attribution might be there, but I couldn’t find it. With purism being such good open source citizens, I would have expected that to be front and centre.

@kev I think the hype is mostly just coming from the places we're hanging out. Also, I'm pretty stoked that they've put Mastodon so front and center in their offerings. Can only add to the user base, which is good for us as members of the Federation.


@mike @kev @kelbot I am here because of I suppose I am the ideal use case; I am not going out and finding these services on my own and I want to support the company because I am dying to get their phone. For me, the bundle of services has value because I don't have to set anything up. VPN for example, a couple clicks and I am up running. Purism did post about all the upstream clients but I would like to have seen that linked from the main page.

@jonathan_knez And I think that's a solid strategy for Purism. These services already exist in the wild (minus the changes from their forking), so development requirements for them are minimal, yet they can offer a collection of services that are valuable to the people using them that live up to the core values of the company. I'm not super crazy about some of the ways they implemented it, but all in all I'm not going to shrill rant on a podcast about it either.

@kev @kelbot

Yeah, I don't think they launched it in the best way. The while disabling reporting thing was really dumb. I guess at least they changed their minds after feedback. Chris really sounded like a bitter kickstarter backer that just wanted to jab at the company.
@jonathan_knez @kev

@kelbot I wouldn't go so far as to say "dumb", but definitely short sighted. Disabling that feature makes sense in a monolithic environment. If was a stand alone service that didn't interact with anybody else, there is no local or federated timeline, individuals blocking individuals would be sufficient. Unfortunately, they didn't think about the rest of the federation when they did it. I imagine that decision hit them like a kick in the face.

@jonathan_knez @kev

But they ARE part of the fediverse and advertise that very fact. Launching this service and not understanding how it works looks pretty dumb to me.
@jonathan_knez @kev

@kev @kelbot @mike I found the source and there's a statement from someone working at purism that says a blog post is coming up regarding this kerfuffle.

I'll be including all of that in *my* upcoming blog post :P

@brandon @mike @kelbot @kev @erikstl given that their advertising copy makes mention of the fact that there are already "millions" of users, i highly doubt they are defederating themselves.

@greg @brandon They're obviously federating to at least some extent because we can all see and follow and comment on accounts on their instance, and vice versa. Even if they've disabled the Federated timeline (a move I'm not entirely against having looked into the Fed on occasion), that doesn't mean they're not federating.

@erikstl @kelbot @kev

@kev @amolith I think the story is the cloud service, not the apps.

@sean @kev @amolith I like that they have guides on how to delete facebook, whatsapp, twitter, etc.

@sean @amolith maybe that the piece I’m missing here? But if they’re just setting up a matrix, imap, Mastodon and a white-labelled vpn service, I still fail to see the innovation here?

@kev @amolith I don't think the point is "innovation" per se, but more "we're setting up a cloud service you pay for with currency rather than personal data and ad views."

My initial reaction was that I do all of that stuff for myself anyway (though for considerably more money than they are charging per month). Still, I'm not their target market which I think is people who would rather not use Google, but don't have the tech skills to self-host all of those services.

@sean @amolith yeah, that’s an interesting perspective. Maybe I’m being a little too harsh.

I agree in principle, but marketing makes all the difference. So if it promotes and makes free software easier to access, while supporting projects like the Librem5, I think it helps the cause overall.

Business gonna business collaboration be damned.

@kev they are just indeed paid rebranded fork of already existing stuff, and they are not even crediting the original apps :)

@blacklight447 no, I’ve not seen any edit for the original apps on their website either. Granted, I didn’t look very hard though, so it might be there somewhere.

My only worry with this whole thing is, will there be one unified login for all these services? If so, it's a bit of a case of putting all your eggs in one basket, one gets compromised, they all get compromised ....

@kev I guess they will pointlessly rebrand some apps for vanity reasons.

@kev I'm more confused if these are just Android apps or if they're porting them to linux... which I thought was the point of the Librem 5. As far as I know, there is no K9 for desktop linux. Is everything going to be on Shashlik or one of these emulators? They also mention an iOS mail app if they meet some subscriber goal.

@hrthu I really hope they don’t just run emulators. I think that will likely piss a lot of people off. Purism have a pretty good rep generally speaking, so I’m sure that won’t happen.

@kev I don't know. The whole thing is quite strange. And, honestly, the mix of funding languages--crowd-funding backers, donations, and subscriptions--leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm especially irked by the donations bit. One should certainly support independent devs w/ donations--but for companies to appropriate the language is they're Medecins Sans Frontieres or something is rather odious.

@kev this will help onboard Grandma, that's why it's important:)

@LPS will it? The average user doesn’t really give a damn about privacy. The millions (billions?) of people that still use Facebook is testament to that.

@kev okay, a bit of an exaggeration, but it lowers the barrier that's for sure. It certainly makes it an easier sell for any of us to introduce the idea to people we care about.

@kev I think that it's just that they are bundling it all together as a cohesive set of tools for normal people that want privacy. If you walk up to a person on the street and say, "We've got Tusky and K9 and Riot and we protect you with PIA!" they will just run away. If you package it neatly, and show that it has all of things that you might want to do, (I hope) that they'll have a good chance.

@murph “We’ve got tusks, k9, riot and PIA!” 😂😂😂😂 good point!

@kev probably the "it's all packaged in one spot" sort of deal.

plus it's (I feel bad saying this, but..) Librem the same way "it's Apple."

except there is a larger chance it's all fine with Librem poking into it.

but as another previous boost I saw points out, centralization of all the software, even if it's librem, isn't a good thing

@kev also I just saw this was 7 hours ago. sorry if someone already answered

@kev I'd say while efforts like Freedombox holds more attention better, it's great to have someone like them who cares about privacy offering to run these services.

As for the clients I don't want them to make too big changes as they have better things to focus on, and while I think they're trying cater used to silos with their branded apps I wish people would learn to seperate the concepts of client and server.

But it's hard to communicate about things not visible onscreen.

@alcinnz @kev My problem with this is that they seem to be building non-federating silos of federated social applications.

Looks like their Mastodon instance doesn't federate and also hides local and federated timelines.

I'd still recommend getting a libre #selfhosting solution instead which doesn't have a corporation behind it, benefit or not. The data stays on your own computer, you get to decide configuration options, it's more affordable, provides more apps etc.

@njoseph @kev @alcinnz I vaguely remember reading that they were going to do this. The rebranding of apps is ok so long as it's within the license terms, but moving from a Twitter or Facebook silo to a Purism one isn't really all that much progress. It's a bit like the situation with Signal where you can choose any server so long as it's Moxie's.

@njoseph @alcinnz @kev I think that the initiative is good for people who would never selfhost themselves and is offering a full ready to consume product (in contrast to a platform and a myriad of apps for consuming it)...

@njoseph @alcinnz @kev ... Which is good for non tech-savvy people IMHO. And being backed up by a for-profit but socially responsible company seems to be a good foundation for the economic sustainability of the service, which is sometimes the reason of selfhosted instances shutting down.

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