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Recently, multiple I listen to, talked about the issue of "not being nice" to those on Linux who want to use proprietary software.

I think proprietary sw is a problem, especially if you run it on a personal device. However, sometimes it is hard to avoid it.

However, practical concerns should not affect advocacy. We should advocate for the "ideal" world we would like to see, and consider practical solutions as compromises one has to make in a non-ideal world.

@nicemicro I wouldn't actually mind me some proprietary software on Linux. Well, as long as it's containerised property and can't snoop around the system too much.

I think it's the lack of commerce in Linux ecosystem that is keeping the OS back from mass adoption and becoming a norm.

Android is a good example of how powerful could be

@kaievans And Android is also a good example of how much of a spyware infested hellscape it could be.

Your access controls and constraints are worthless if every app you get from the store refuses to work without you giving them access to your location, webcam, etc.

@nicemicro maybe so, but FOSS is also useless at replicating a lot of proprietary software. It's been 20 years, and I have my doubts it will ever happen.

the way I see it, solving the security problem is more approachable by FOSS community, than solving the lack of commercial grade software

@kaievans commercial grade software belongs on corporate machines that are not "personal" devices. As a corporation, you don't have privacy concerns. You might have corporate secrets, but you also probably have lawyers for such contingencies.

If Free Software will be unable to exploit regular people by trying to sell them overpriced "professional" software... we don't lose out on anything.

@nicemicro @kaievans Professional, Industry Standard and alikes are just euphemism for software recommendation.

@colinsmatt11 @nicemicro sure thing, were not talking tautology here though. I'm talking simply about availability of commercial software options

FOSS doesn't even have a decent email/calendar client, let alone any specialised software for media production. Fuck it wouldn't even have a decent code editor if it's not for vs code ;)

And it will never have those because all FOSS cares about is software aka programming. And there is much more involved in making a great product that that

martin has already pointed out the most basic error in your post, but I wonder, what is your gold standard of commercial email/calendar client?

@lxo and that goes back to the main problem with gnu/foss philosophy, it's focus on software.

It's a great approach to produce tech, like Linux kernel for example, but it consistently failing to produce great products. Because great products involve much more than just software

ISTM you've got a twisted pitch. the FS movement is about freedom, not products; nonfree software subjugates you, it's an injustice, so it doesn't belong in civilization. if you don't like what the software you use does, you should be free to improve it, or to fund whoever you trust to do so on your behalf, individually or collectively.
me, I'm very happy with gnus and org-mode in emacs. I was genuinely curious about what you wanted for email and calendaring, but I wouldn't be surprised if you, like most people, had got so used to the human farming environments that you find them more comfortable than user-liberating and -controlled ones
Kai Evans

@lxo I actually believe that both FOSS and proprietary software licensing, do essentially the same thing. They cock block each other from their software being used by the other group. Both of the sides are assholes who only care about themselves

if you truly want to contribute to the society, you should permissively license you code and let anyone "steal" it. It doesn't matter if somebody makes money of it or not, well unless you're just being an envious shmuck about it, that is

it's never been about someone else's making money. it's about respecting others' autonomy over their own computing. people don't enjoy being enslaved, subjugated, controlled, deprived of choice, forced to behave against their will, whether or not someone else benefits from it. some of us take a stand against all of that. other defend exploiters who benefit from subjugating others. whose side are you on, and why?
https://www.fsfla.org/blogs/lxo/pub/against-software-tyranny.en.html

@lxo what a load of self agrandising horse shit.

Hey, I tell you what, take all this crap and go try to sell it again as "we're basically solving slavery" to someone who was actually affected by slavery, I'd looove to hear how that would go