Recently, multiple #Linux #Podcasts I listen to, talked about the issue of "not being nice" to those on Linux who want to use proprietary software.
I think proprietary sw is a problem, especially if you run it on a personal device. However, sometimes it is hard to avoid it.
However, practical concerns should not affect advocacy. We should advocate for the "ideal" world we would like to see, and consider practical solutions as compromises one has to make in a non-ideal world.
@nicemicro I wouldn't actually mind me some proprietary software on Linux. Well, as long as it's containerised property and can't snoop around the system too much.
I think it's the lack of commerce in Linux ecosystem that is keeping the OS back from mass adoption and becoming a norm.
Android is a good example of how powerful could be
@kaievans And Android is also a good example of how much of a spyware infested hellscape it could be.
Your access controls and constraints are worthless if every app you get from the store refuses to work without you giving them access to your location, webcam, etc.
@nicemicro maybe so, but FOSS is also useless at replicating a lot of proprietary software. It's been 20 years, and I have my doubts it will ever happen.
the way I see it, solving the security problem is more approachable by FOSS community, than solving the lack of commercial grade software
@kaievans commercial grade software belongs on corporate machines that are not "personal" devices. As a corporation, you don't have privacy concerns. You might have corporate secrets, but you also probably have lawyers for such contingencies.
If Free Software will be unable to exploit regular people by trying to sell them overpriced "professional" software... we don't lose out on anything.
@colinsmatt11 @nicemicro sure thing, were not talking tautology here though. I'm talking simply about availability of commercial software options
FOSS doesn't even have a decent email/calendar client, let alone any specialised software for media production. Fuck it wouldn't even have a decent code editor if it's not for vs code ;)
And it will never have those because all FOSS cares about is software aka programming. And there is much more involved in making a great product that that
@colinsmatt11 @doctormo @nicemicro so, let me summarise what you said here
basically, you don't use much software and therefore you assume that nobody else needs anything
would you say this is more of a smart position to have or more of a dumb one?
@colinsmatt11 @doctormo @nicemicro are you sure you're reading the messages you're replying to, Matt? :)
I said right there, that _I_ want proprietary software on my linux machine, I _want_ a decent email and calendar apps, and I don't mind paying for them. I want Fusion360, and actually fully supported Zoom, and a commercial note taking app, and video games that work and supported by the vendor, and a whole slew of other things
@kaievans you can want whatever you want. You are arguing with no one on that. That was even my original point in the original post.
But why on earth would you ADVOCATE for proprietary (user-abusing) software? Why not advocate for making good free software alternatives instead, and treat using proprietary ones as a temporary compromise?
Also, please stop confusing the word "commercial software" as the opposite of free software, because it makes arguing useless.
@lxo Martin just wanted to be part of the conversation, god bless his cotton socks
At the root of what I said is that, ultimately, I want to use Linux as a decent manager's machine. Meaning good officially supported software for office, calendar, mail, zoom, etc etc. And a content creator, meaning video games, video editing software, etc.
All this software is commercially built, because all FOSS managed to produce in 20+ years is ugly farts like kmail and evolution.
@lxo and that goes back to the main problem with gnu/foss philosophy, it's focus on software.
It's a great approach to produce tech, like Linux kernel for example, but it consistently failing to produce great products. Because great products involve much more than just software
@lxo im sorry Alexandre, but what you're saying is basically a self justifying lunacy that has zero evidence in reality
as I said to the other guy, RMS is a false prophet. the kind of freedom you're talking about is a lunacy that only cares about the engineering side of the equation. RMS basically had daddy issues in his youth, and you follow his path blindly like lemmings
@lxo yes, blindfolded and with a dildo in my butt, lol
You know that mastodon and underlying rails are not GNU GPL, right? What about the smartphone software that runs in your pocket, is that even OSS? Are you using them blindfolded and with a dildo in your butt?
Do you even hear how moronic you free software folks sound? " Hat damn' I like my Emacs, and everyone who wants different just hates our freedoms!"
@lxo Ill try this one time okay. just for the kicks of it.
just go and eyeball the number of success stories between FOSS, permissive OSS, and proprietary OSS projects
don't listen to me, look to the numbers. do you still think that production of the most useful software that advances the "civilisation" as you said, is a function of FOSS licensing?
@lxo yeah, right. While you're busy still fapping on supercomputers like it's 1999, proprietary software runs on billions of devices and powers the bulk of the economy
And don't give the whole Linux everyone nonsense.
@lxo I actually believe that both FOSS and proprietary software licensing, do essentially the same thing. They cock block each other from their software being used by the other group. Both of the sides are assholes who only care about themselves
if you truly want to contribute to the society, you should permissively license you code and let anyone "steal" it. It doesn't matter if somebody makes money of it or not, well unless you're just being an envious shmuck about it, that is
@lxo what a load of self agrandising horse shit.
Hey, I tell you what, take all this crap and go try to sell it again as "we're basically solving slavery" to someone who was actually affected by slavery, I'd looove to hear how that would go