@ja_nishat I dream of it but I think it’ll take a major shift for everyone to do that. The majority don’t care. “Oh you want my data in exchange for convenience? Sure go ahead.”
yeah, but I'm seeing more and more people starting to 'untrust' corporate data services like google and facebook. Isn't that an indication for a change in scenario?
@ja_nishat Would be good.... yet I dream of a future where even non-technical people, such as my 60+ parents and my 70+ aunts and uncles, are easily able to use reliable, available services at an "uptime" and "usability" quality of Facebook, WhatsApp, ... without having to bother how to get started, how to use it, or whether it's available when they really need it. If that's self-hosted or not - just a technical thing in my opionion. 😉
I like that thought!
@ja_nishat I don't know if "realistic" refers to technology or society. Technically a self-hosted internet was possible ages ago - indeed thats how it started
But the social reality is we have a combination of idiot users and greedy technologists eager to exploit idiocy
@ja_nishat That's the goal! We need to keep making it easier to do, though. It needs to be extremely simple if we want to reach that point.
As long as ISPs maintain (economic) control of internet traffic, I doubt it will happen.
It's most probably coincidental, but the fact that your ISP keeps you under a NAT is a huge leverage for big companies over the common people.
@rick_777 NAT is problematic to protocol development. the damage is done there. everything is some flavor of HTTP now.
the biggest issue is asymmetric bandwidth in access networks. but that is slowly changing with passive optical networks and some kinds of wireless technologies.
unfortunately 100/10 and 500/20 type packages are still the norm in DOCSIS and xDSL networks. and that limits P2P/self-hosting abilities.
@ja_nishat I like the idea of self-hosting a lot but one major problem is that said person needs to have knowledge about the tech they are using which already is quite a huge problem.
I do think decentralization will be part of the future but I don't think every individual holding their own data will be the future.
@ja_nishat It's an interesting idea, and I think it's entirely possible, but someone will have to release a product that makes self hosting easy. I picture a small device, maybe in the form factor of one of the Google Home Hubs (just in form) that will automatically interface with a registrar to setup the necessary internet stuff. Then there would need to be an easy migration integrated for hardware upgrades (similar to smart phones). Then all services would run on the single device.
@ja_nishat imo: Strongly depends on whether there's enough ppl who want to do whatever sysadmin looks like in that future, for there to be roughly one sysadmin per Dunbar unit of people
There will always be a subset of people who will want to offload hosting responsibilities. Under the right conditions, trading money for time is valid.
I do think we need to preserve the option of being able to self-host though. In order to do that, we need to make sure #IPv6 gets deployed everywhere.
@ja_nishat @codesections As it stands, the big players are gobbling up all of the available IPv4 space. Without IPv6 everywhere, there will come a time where you will be forced to use one of the large providers in order to get a "public" IP address.
If we don't preserve the end-to-end principle, there will always be content providers and consumers. This was not how it was meant to be.
@ja_nishat Sounds realistic to me. And getting the ISPs on our side would be a huge win for this, because then they can build in something like FreedomBox into each of their routers (which are sure to be full computers anyways).
But if not it wouldn't cost much at all to give people these home servers.
People do go looking for media servers and network-attached storage and backup, though. No reason someone couldn't buy some existing hardware design in bulk and start putting these things on Amazon, maybe kicked off by a Kickstarter?
I think it is. But we need 3 things to make it work:
1. Ethical software that makes it easy to self host.
2. Symmetrical bandwidth from Internet Providers (so uploading stuff isn't super slow).
3. A way to make peer to peer communications easier to use and more reliable so that the cost of transmitting data is shared across all nodes.
Without all 3 available to everyone, a web with everything self hosted may not be possible.
@ja_nishat I think the massive increase in distributed systems research and resulting open source implementations of many foundational needs (gossip & replication protocols, namely) as well as ever cheaper infrastructure ($60/year is "cheap" in "developed" countries -- I wish I had better terms more readily available to me) paired with higher bandwidth to access networks...I think it is very realistic in the next 10 years.
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