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Windows 11 will only support 8th gen Intel (released in 2017) or newer, AMD Ryzen 2000 (released in 2018) or newer and 2nd gen AMD EPYC server chips (released in 2019) or newer.

Microsoft is also requiring a front-facing camera for all Windows 11 devices, except desktop PCs from January 2023.

Not only is Microsoft now one of the worst unsustainable and biggest e-waste companies, they're now also one of the biggest creeps with no ethics or moral.

Is the year of the Linux coming for real now?

@hund looks like I won't even be able to use it if I wanted to. What's wrong with 7th gen????

@herag What's wrong with my second generation i5? :/ Heck. What's wrong with my 13 year old E8400?

@hund true true. I will say, my i7 kind of sucks. Like... throw more than 2 processes at it and forget it. I hate Intel sometimes. You know my old i3, 2nd gen never had those issues.

Nevermind... I just hate computers sometimes.

@hund
i hope it is not. msft behaviour is condoned and encouraged. recall 3 weeks ago when windows 11 was a rumor testing the masses on how acceptable it would be to break a promise and fleece the sheep. that attitude in free software is very detrimental.

@hund
msft promised a rolling release model starting with windows 10 being the only windows one would buy. i bet the upgrade to 11 will be free on condition that hardware requirements are met. it is a variant of the xp to vista move where hardware were unnecessarily obsolesced.

@hund
imagine the pressure devs and maintainers will come under when the waste flow of msft cultists start demanding clones of all windows behavior and appearances from free software applications. imagine the thinking that throwing money at open source buys all. open source will then worsen the whole ecosystem of free software. operators like me that enjoy both the libre and gratis of free software will be considered meaningless, waste of resources. kernel dev will simply be sweatshopping.

@hund i like to think that one day keeping #linux away from homes and regular users (as opposed to techies and the cloud) will become impossible and there will be a mass migration that is going to be visible from space.

Alas we are still some years away. Ease of use is still an issue, but most importantly, the killer app of the #opensource universe (which is the #fediverse) is very premature.

@hund Wow. I assumed the 6th gen i5 in my ThinkPad T460 would be able to run it. And if webcam and internet connection are going to be “required”, Windows 10 will be the last version of Windows I run on any of my machines. Time for the Linux community to step up and show the world what proper personal computing looks like.

@hund People have to know about Linux and take it seriously to switch, but once that's done, people might be eager to switch away from something oppressive to something liberating. Especially on non-ideological grounds.

I know totally non-techie people who switched to Linux and enjoy it simply because they don't have to avoid the pain of the Windows update screen.

The trick is to spread the word before people get use to yet more abuse from Microsoft.

@hund
As I said many times before, Linux won't be mainstream until Linux developers pull their heads out of their asses for long enough to look at 100IQ user and see that the terminal isn't the issue he's complaining about.

@hund
I have been debating this topic here several times already, so sorry if I won't respond with extreme enthusiasm.

As far as I can tell, there are 3 main issues.
1) lack of installers
2) ridiculously confusing file system
3) complex user privileges

Do you need any further information on these?

@LukeAlmighty :ms_shrug_t2: I dunno. I couldn't figure out how to install Xorg with FreeBSD. @hund

@LukeAlmighty 1. There's multiple ones out there. And several of them are really good.
2. Confusing how?
3. Complex how?

:)

@hund
1. There's multiple ones out there. And several of them are really good.
Oh.... I guess you misunderstood me. I meant the little exe files, that contain unconfigured versions of the program. And most of the times, they allow you where to install that shit aswell.

2) Where is disk C, D, and where should I start making my own environment? That should be beyond obvious. If you aren't completelly sure what disk contsins what file, you've done a shitty job.

3) I guess you're joking here...

@georgia @hund not if you don't have a front-facing camera and approved processor, apparently.

@jeremiah @georgia I'm pretty sure that they was referring to the fact that most games works just fine in most Linux based operating system these days, thanks to Proton.

@hund

i'm using ubuntu to code in asm and to use web is very slow compared with windows 10 :(

@hund nope, because consumers are spineless idiots
@mia @hund im a spineless idiot and I use gnu/linux. no excuses.

@hund I doubt these requirements will be strict or not be revised.

@hund Forward facing camera's on all devices is reasonable. Video conferencing is so common right now, and isn't going to go back to 2019 levels.

And I doubt any device manufacturers were thinking of not having one in a new design anyway.

(the other bits aren't reasonable, although)

(and I was interested, the minimum spec for w98 was a cpu that was 6 years old (but the fastest cpu of 6 years earlier, not all the variants)

@LovesTha @hund Sure, it's reasonable in that everyone will have them anyway. But it's still an arbitrary restriction. Not having a front-facing camera shouldn't prevent an operating system from, well, operating.

@josias @hund That isn't how that rule works, it's that MS wont sell you licences to ship with the devices if it doesn't have one. So it's MS strong arming OEMs to do something they were probably going to do anyway.

The CPU reqs are a much much bigger deal, in '98 a 6 year old CPU was a potato (the 66MHz 486DX2 v 266Mhz Celeron), in '21 a 6 year old CPU can be nearly as fast as a brand new one (I7-6900k V I5-11500). The CPU requirements are worse, and don't reflect changes in the industry.

@LovesTha @hund Okay. That makes more sense, and I am more concerned about Microsoft's ability to do this, and how that power is used elsewhere. They can exert such power only because of their monopoly in the market and the fact that their software is proprietary.

I'd prefer a situation where Microsoft couldn't arbitrarily restrict CPUs or cameras at all.

@LovesTha @hund do we happen to know whether these specs are "lowest recommended" or "will refuse to install on anything else"?

mandating webcams sounds bad because it's not like users can't decide whether they want one or not. Actually, even CPU reqs sound better ("we're too lazy to keep in spectre / meltdown fixes so we just won't run on those in the name of Security").

(what was the minimum for w98? "should have a decent MMU" sounds even more reasonable :))

@ssafar @hund I believe it was not enforced for w98, just the box listed 66MHz 486DX.

The webcam requirement sounds like a requirement to OEMs, which makes me believe it will be a licence arrangement requirement, not something in software.

@hund @ssafar I was defending the webcam requirement for non-desktops, the CPU stuff is stupid

@LovesTha @ssafar Who can you defend the webcam requirement? It's a stupid requirement.

@hund @ssafar It's a bit silly, it is going to change nothing as no one is designing a laptop/tablet/etc without a camera today.

@LovesTha @hund @ssafar@floss.social they do design laptops without cameras (redmibook is one that comes to mind), to a very unpleasant surprise of those who purchased it in 2020-2021 without reading the specs carefully

@IngaLovinde @hund they did, I doubt they are again (at least in the near future

@LovesTha @hund @ssafar They probably would, if not for these Win11 OEM requirements.

Another example is Huawei MagicBook, even 2021 models come without a camera.

Yet another is One Netbook One Mix 4, sold for $1k+.

And it's not like a lack of webcam is their selling point. It's more like a presence of webcam is not their selling point. Which, again, makes for a very unpleasant surprise to those who bought these during pandemic for work, not even thinking that a modern laptop can be without a camera.

@IngaLovinde @hund @ssafar so you are saying MS are going with a policy that prevents OEMs saving money in a way every customer would think was underhanded?

@LovesTha @hund @ssafar In this specific case, probably?

I never heard of somewhat modern laptops that do not have a camera as a conscious privacy choice (ones that have their privacy choices advertised usually have a camera plus a physical shutter, like recent Thinkpads).
However, there seems to be a plenty of laptops where OEMs saved a tiny bit of money so that a customer (who had purchased a new laptop in 2020 in order to work remotely because covid) will be unpleasantly surprised the moment after unpacking it, because who could have thought some laptops in 2020 do not have a camera.

@IngaLovinde @hund @ssafar privacy shutters and hardware power switches for microphones are a real thing, I expect to see a lot of those.

@IngaLovinde @LovesTha @hund I used to have a company laptop with the webcam explicitly removed. (as in: it had the room for it but it was empty.) I imagine they paid extra for this.

MS could have just mandated prominent "this laptop does not have a webcam" stickers instead, with pretty much the same result?

@ssafar @LovesTha @hund I would think that the requirements are probably entirely different for enterprise users than for OEMs :)

I don't think a prominent sticker would solve anything, since an ordinary user would only see that sticker after they already ordered a laptop and got it delivered. Even if MS even can mandate any kind of stickers (no idea about that).

I just don't understand what is the problem here? Power users or enterprise users will presumably always be to install Win11 to anything; this just limits OEMs, not allowing them to sell laptops with Win11 but without webcams or with less than 4GB RAM or with a non-Precision touchpad or with older CPUs or tablets without volume buttons?

@IngaLovinde @LovesTha @hund ... actually, you probably convinced me here; as long as it's just OEMs. Even for TPMs (... apparently, that's what "only newer CPUs!" is for), if this is what it takes to end up with something better than passwords, let's be it.

As long as you can install it on anything you already have & can technically run it.

... which they're probably not planning on allowing for TPMs?

@IngaLovinde @hund @ssafar also, please don't confuse my statements about future designs with past ones. Designs pre-COVID are from a different time.

@LovesTha @hund @ssafar But this requirement only affects designs starting from 2023 AFAIK?

And also it seems that CPU generation restrictions also only apply to OEMs? docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windo
So while an ordinary person will be able to install Win11 to their old PC, OEMs cannot design and release new Win11-based systems with older CPUs... :blobcatthinking:

@IngaLovinde @hund @ssafar MS have been burned in the past with bad old systems being sold with the new OS, so there are good reasons.

@IngaLovinde @LovesTha @hund ohh I just saw this one; it seems to be more okay than I thought then!

(unless they weaponize TPMs & secure boot, but... hopefully that's a bit too obviously evil, even for them?)

@LovesTha It's not reasonable at all. There's absolutely no reason to have a webcam as a system requirement for an operating system.

The only reasonable required hardware requirements is the amount of RAM and disk space that's actually needed for it to work.

The reason the age of the supported CPUs is stupid is that they're litteraly the only ones supported. You won't be able to install Windows 11 on anything older than what they put a software limit on.

@hund Once you include Teams as an integrated part of the OS a webcam creeps into the minimum specs :)

@LovesTha Ubuntu ships with some webcam software as well. It also comes with software for printing. That doesn't mean that you have to have a webcam or a printer to be able to even install Ubuntu to begin with.

@hund Yes, because I have an 8th gen and am already using Linux.

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