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A discussion I've had while talking about politics (and my anti-capitalist ideas) with people is that people often point out all the good capitalism has done, and how humanity has prospered more under capitalism than any other economic system.

And I don't deny that, yet at the same time that doesn't mean that capitalism is the final stage either. I think capitalistic society has existed long enough for us to recognize the areas where it falls short.

We get so settled into the idea that radical change can't/shouldn't happen. But that doesn't mean it's not worth trying, but there needs to be the will to make it happen. The will to step outside of what is comfortable/normal and a desire to want to try and improve things for everyone.

@gaurdianaq What would you replace it (capitalism) with? It's not that it isn't without its shortcomings, but that it's still the best system going.

@mab Currently I'm a fan of some form of libertarian socialist civilization (in particular anarchist communism seems pretty sweet, but I'm open to other ideas)

The idea being that we have decentralized government/society. Rather than the gigantic hierarchy of government that we currently have. But it would have to be socialistic in nature and still focus on ensuring basic needs are met, but would also allow for individual needs of different communities to be met.

@gaurdianaq I'm not sure what "anarchist communism" is, but the basic problem with most systems (including the capitalists-based systems in the west today) is that at the end of the day, products and services have a true cost- ie: resources, time, energy, etc... Saying basic needs shouldn't be part of a free market may sound nice, but that doesn't take the resource cost out of it.

@gaurdianaq For example: healthcare has a real cost in terms of resources for medication, production and service to implement the treatments but no one know what that cost is because it's been abstracted and obfuscated by socialized healthcare systems. The upshot is that decisions regarding planning for, acquiring and deploying healthcare products and services cannot be accurately made because the true cost is unknowable.

@mab Anarchist Communism if I had to try and describe it in a nutshell, would involve small/decentralized mostly self sufficient communist communities working together.

In the book "The Conquest of Bread" one of the things the author argued, was that if everyone worked 5 hours a day towards the community rather than for like profit of individual businesses, we could produce enough for everyone to be able to have access to what they need (no concept of money in this society)

@mab Now mind you, the calculations the author did were based on the technology and popuplation of the late 1800's, I'd imagine with todays technology it would be even less.

The general point though is so many resources get wasted on producers competing with each other. So much food gets wasted because there are competing producers all trying to sell the same thing.

@mab One idea I've seen proposed for such a society is that you could have like like 3-5 hours a day, 5 days a week of necessary labour assigned to you (based on your capabilities and such, if someone has health problems that prevent them from doing a certain type of work they'd be found work that's suitable to them)

In exchange for that mandatory labour, you're guaranteed housing and access to all the benefits the community offers.

@gaurdianaq yeah, I don't know. I think people are more productive when they work for themselves, but when it's for someone else they're not as productive. You see that a lot at minimum wage jobs where the rewards are limited (if not non-existent). In a communal environment, I could see people slacking more which is detrimental to the community as a whole.

@mab See I'd disagree there, I found the issues with my job at mcdonalds more had to do with the fact that we were often understaffed, didn't have the proper space needed, and overall was just not enough pay for how hard you had to work.

Mind you in a society without any concept of money, there would be no reason to not provide better working conditions. And if working 5 hours a day at whatever meant I didn't need to worry about food or adequate housing I'd do that in a heartbeat.

@mab Or even some sort of hybrid capitalist system that takes basic necessities out of the free market and have those be socialized or at the bare minimum, be run by non profit organizations. People shouldn't be profiting off of necessities imo.

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