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I have deleted my Twitter and Facebook profiles. I feel like a new human being.
The last bridge I want to burn is Whatsapp, this is going to be difficult.

@fatboy If you are not in any large group chats, it is not that hard. Delete WhatsApp and ask the people you really want to talk to if they could install the messenger of your choice. Worked really well for me.

@Winterstar Yeah, that's the thing. I'm in a few group chats with only one being very important :(

@fatboy
@Winterstar What group? I didn't even know WhatsApp had groups.

@hund @fatboy a lot of organizations like sports clubs or school classes use WhatsApp for group chatting go manage stuff. This is the hardest to escape because you need to convince a whole large group at once.

@fatboy

re: Whatsapp

I've tried #XMPP. fail. (nobody else in my circle wanted to use it)

I tried #Matrix. fail. (nodbody else in my circle wanted to use it)

I tried #Jami (#Ring). fail. (choose between battery killer and not actually receiving any messages)

I tried #Signal. fail. (won't work without google services)

I tried #Tox. fail. (half the time messages just don't get delivered)

😕

Not sure where to next, but if you find something, let me know ;)

@falgn0n @fatboy Though I'm not a big fan of it for a variety of reasons, Signal does work without Google Play Services as long as you get the apk directly from their website.

@fatboy @hrthu

NVM, it starts up / logs in in spite of that message

@falgn0n @hrthu When Google Play is installed, Wire uses it, but it does function without it

@falgn0n @fatboy thinking about it, they say that Signal are secure and private, but if they use Google Play Services (such like GCM/FCM for notifications), I have some doubts about their privacy.

@falgn0n @fatboy then using WhatsApp or Signal basically is the same, with the same root problem, but with other own problems of each app.

WhatsApp has the main community, but even with the privacy advertisement, it's really questionable.

And Signal, it's cool and paladin of privacy, but again, you will need to use GPS to work properly, not cool (and less safe).

That's how I see this problem.

@jsalvador @falgn0n @fatboy Signal uses Google Play services for push notifications but if you don't have the Gapps installed it will use websockets instead afaik (Since 2017 ?). Signal also uses Amazon servers by the way :)

@albert @falgn0n @fatboy Oh cool. But using Amazon servers isn't cool for an app who uses privacy and security on its slogan, isn't it?

Anyway, if you like Signal, go for it. I'm Telegram fan, and I'm not purist with privacy things (I'm still using Facebook and Twitter too, so...)

@jsalvador @falgn0n @fatboy No, indeed, it is not that much fun that Signal uses Amazon servers, but the alternatives are either not good enough or too difficult to use (Ricochet, Jami, Tox, Briar) or not enough friends, family, co-workers are using it (XMPP). The people that I communicate with, shows a growing amount of Signal users.

@falgn0n @fatboy Use and ask your contacts to join using . It's like "WhatsApp on XMPP". Free account with phone number.

@marsxyz @falgn0n @fatboy

I got the same problem...Slowly trying to educate peers regarding the need for quitting #whatsapp.
I use only #XMPP and atleast people close to me are now forced to start using it 😬 ....And when I make new contacts and people ask for whatsapp number, it is easy to educate them regarding this, thus getting more people to use XMPP...But I think the point is to stick to one format - #XMPP, #Jami, #Briar or Whatever...If u switch now and then, people lose confidence in u.

@falgn0n @fatboy I'm just in the process of getting my XMPP sorted out again. There's been tons of work on it recently and I hear it is extremely usable now. I am setting up a server for my hackerspace so can give people accounts if they complain that they don't have XMPP accounts already. Probably going to do a talk at the hackerspace on XMPP and the Fediverse at some point too to drive up some more interest.

@irl @fatboy

hit me up if you set up a group chat & could use some attention here & there building critical mass

@falgn0n

@deejoe @fatboy @falgn0n I made a MUC at stuff@muc.57n.org if you want to join. I've not tested S2S yet so would be good to see if it's working.

@falgn0n @fatboy

There should be a version of Signal on their site that works without the google services. There was a huge drama previously and they don't allow anyone to publish the builds anywhere else. We can't even have a version on Fdroid. It's fucking ridiculous. It's one of the things that annoye me freaking lot with #Signal. But ehy, at least installing directly from their website the apk it should work.

@falgn0n @fatboy Signal work perfectly without Google services 😉

@gotexx @fatboy
Here's the thing:
I have g-services on my phone, but (mostly) disabled - as much as I can without rooting and flashing #LineageOS

#Signal sees this and wants to use it - it does not give the option to #FuckOffGoogle ...

Once I find a working #TWRP for this phone (Huawei PRA-LA1 with EMUI 8.0), I will root, flash and try signal again :)

:anarchism:

@falgn0n @gotexx Great!
I have read some blogs/posts saying Huawei phones are difficult to hack? I hope you succeed

@falgn0n Yes, personnaly i run #LineageOS 15.1 on my Xiaomi Mi Note 2 without the GServices and Signal work perfectly.

@falgn0n @fatboy

It's expected behaviour that your messages don't get delivered if both ends aren't only at the same time with .

There is no server, so nowhere to store the messages when you're offline.

@falgn0n @fatboy do you not want to use Google services? because with MicroG, Signal works fine :)
@eater @falgn0n @fatboy Last time I actually bothered to try this (which was this year), messages don't get delivered all the time if the app isn't open (yes, I'm using MicroG). That is leaving aside the incredibly toxic dev and the fact that it forces you to update even if the core protocol hasn't changed, which to my mind is user-hostile.

@krageon @fatboy @falgn0n @eater Signal has worked fine for me for years on CyanogenMod with MicroG. However, the toxic dev is certainly a downside, and their update policy is plain stupid. There’s also the issue that the signal-deskop application doesn’t work if you have noexec on /tmp.

I’ve been looking at alternatives, and Jami has popped up. I wanted to try it out but I need a more up-to-date Android version for it. Then again, I also need a newer Android version if I want to get the next Signal updates (and Signal refuses to send messages if you’re not on an up-to-date version, even if there’s no technical limitation to sending a message).

FWIW, dropping WhatsApp is incredibly easy. Just stop using it and tell people to just call you if they need something important, or use a good ol’ fashioned email if they have something to tell you that’s not-so-important. People always complain that they can’t drop because other friends are using said service. But I somehow doubt that WhatsApp is more prevalent than people having a phone and email-address.

@tyil @falgn0n @fatboy @eater Calling makes me very anxious, so that's not a solution for me. I'm far from being the only person with that sort of trouble. I don't have a generous texting budget, so that's not practical either. Not to mention a significant chunk of the people I actually care to talk to are not in my country, which means those alternatives are useless (read: far too expensive).

"Signal works fine for me" unfortunately doesn't make it run well on whatever phone I happen to have, nor does it make it *reliable*. It can't be said to be reliable if it doesn't just work, I wouldn't recommend it to people when I'm not certain that it will.

@krageon @fatboy @falgn0n @eater That’s a fair concern, however, this does not eliminate email from your reportoire. Which is still written text, has a plethora of applications available on a plethora of systems, is well-established, and more prevalent than usage of WhatsApp, Signal or any other hip protocol.

@fatboy good luck with that! I don’t think I’ll ever be able to ditch WhatsApp unfortunately. 😔

@fatboy I'm running on without gapps just fine, they have an APK for that on their website.

@uwehermann @fatboy I believe that Signal has websocket support since a while, and therefore being no longer dependent on push notifications via Google services : https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/2530 The Signal apk download is for people who prefer to avoid Google Play store afaik. I've stopped using the manual apk download myself and am only installing via Yalp store on my phone without Gapps. Still getting the blue light blinking for a new Signal message notification. \o/
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