I want to tell y'all something I love about .

We're small (<1000 weekly users), but we have a *huge* team of moderators: hub.fosstodon.org/about/the-te There are six of us—more than the team a mastodon.social!

That means that we pretty much always have *somebody* around to moderate.

It also means that no one person speaks for the whole instance. We have a whole team devoted to enforcing our CoC. We might not always agree, but we're all working to make welcoming for everyone

@codesections kev has made it quite clear that he is not, in fact, working to make fosstodon welcoming for everyone. Kick him out or shut up.

@LogicalDash @codesections

I also disagree. @kev has been a massive help to the community; kicking him out just because of one toot wouldn't be fair.

Opinions aren't immutable, and he should be given a fair chance to try to understand why his actions have caused harm. I don't even expect him to apologise – forced apologies are meaningless –, though he might decide to anyway if and when he sees why it's important to "pander to people's feelings".

@wizzwizz4 @codesections @LogicalDash @kev His current pinned toot is about "snowflakes", a right-wing talking point. You're giving him the benefit of the doubt way too much, and I don't think any perceived past services justify breaking a Code of Conduct and getting away with it.
Follow

@hypolite @LogicalDash @kev @wizzwizz4

It's not a pinned toot; it just happens to be the most recent toot

@hypolite @codesections @LogicalDash @kev So, it doesn't tell you anything that he's said nothing "publicly" since the whole incident?

@wizzwizz4 @codesections @kev He didn't pull this toot either, which looks like he's standing by it.

I have no personal stake with Fosstodon, this conversation popped into my timeline because of @LogicalDash, and a cursory search shows me that based on this currently published toot, this Kev I know nothing else about is unfit to be a community moderator, especially on Mastodon.

It doesn't mean he's a Bad Person, just that he shouldn't be in any capacity to take moderation decisions possibly involving people he clearly has no business interacting with. And that's okay, many people aren't fit for this position. But there's absolutely no righteous ground to stand on to defend his position in the Fosstodon community.

@hypolite @codesections @LogicalDash @kev

Some would consider pulling the toot to be an attempt at censoring those arguing against it. Conventions and culture vary; the safest option is to keep it up until lots and lots of people are calling for it to be taken down.

If this toot was taken in isolation, it'd suggest that he was unfit for his job. However, his other actions suggest that he's quite a good fit for his role. He doesn't fit the archetype of unironic "snowflake" sayers.

@hypolite @wizzwizz4 If you can get Kev to delete it and apologize in a way that suggests he's actually learning, I still won't trust him as an admin, but I will at least believe that you, @codesections, are committed to building a friendly environment

@LogicalDash @hypolite @codesections

Others would take deleting it the wrong way—as trying to cover up past mistakes. Regarding deleting or not deleting, I don't think there's a way to "win" here. This mistake will follow him around for a while.

And again – "get" him to apologise? Yeah, I understand not trusting him until he apologises, but making him apologise is mere virtue signalling.

The reason I'm willing to give him "benefit of the doubt" is that this is not representative of past acts.

@wizzwizz4 @hypolite @codesections "in a way that suggests he's actually learning": the way you "get" him to apologize is to really convince him he's fucked up

@LogicalDash @hypolite @codesections

Yup! But that'll take more than a day, regardless of how strongly-held that opinion is.

@wizzwizz4 @hypolite @codesections not necessarily! If all his mods threatened to quit, I think he'd change pretty fast. People's convictions are totally subject to social pressure.

@LogicalDash @hypolite @codesections

That'd clearly be an idle threat. And if it wasn't? Where would that leave us then?

People's actions are constrained by the situations they find themselves in. I don't see why we're going into such detail bashing a human for being imperfect, when we haven't seen whether he's willing to change.

Though, you're right – people's convictions are subject to social pressure. And lots of people have provided it, from all opinions he Should™ have.

1/2

@LogicalDash @hypolite @codesections

In such a situation, I think he'll defer to the opinions of his fellow moderators – those he knows well – and ignore the rest of us throwing opinion after opinion at him. So calling to chuck him out is incredibly premature, and calling for such a threat is entirely unnecessary.

@wizzwizz4 @hypolite So far I've only seen @codesections speaking in tepid defense of Kev and Fosstodon

If you're going to take a rhetorical route to persuading him, this isn't it

@wizzwizz4 @hypolite @codesections if your admin doesn't see anything wrong with his bad behavior, and you're still comfortable moderating under him, you are standing with him, and this constitutes tacit approval, irrespective of your own opinions

Sign in to participate in the conversation
Fosstodon

Fosstodon is an English speaking Mastodon instance that is open to anyone who is interested in technology; particularly free & open source software.