Follow

As soon as you ditch The Big Three hosts (GitHub, GitLab, BitBucket), you realize how difficult and/or inconvenient all modern tech tooling is.

We're not in a good shape.

@celia I *really* like gitea, so much that I've contributed some fixes. Run it yourself, or use a public instance of it like tildegit.org, or codeberg.

@alrs I run my own Gitea host: git.rusingh.com. I'm coming from that very experience. :)

@alrs I like it very much! The original toot is more around the tools _around_ common things we expect as developers. Netlify, Vercel for example don't support Gitea.

Imagine also running a CI/CD server with something like coollabs.io/coolify or docs.meli.sh/ or DroneCI.

Or setting up a "serverless" server for JAMStack with github.com/openfaas/faas.

You start moving out of the commercially-run cloud and dev tools, it's a mess.

GitHub is so tightly integrated everywhere it's bad.

@celia ah. I've carved out a career where I don't really need to touch .js stuff ever, so I've never encountered any of that stuff. I'm hoping wasm happens in a big enough way that .js will be gone sometime this decade.

@celia @alrs The Matthew Effect predicts this will generally happen. The times and names change, but that things accumulating to those who have much remains a constant.

Be interesting to know when the tipping point for GitHub occurred...

@celia @alrs
> Netlify, Vercel for example don't support Gitea.
yep, found this out when we tried to set up netlify with a sourcehut repo. It's almost as if git wasn't decentralized, ew.
would like to set up OpenFAAS but don't really understand it, tbh

@spiral Very much same! Was shocked it wasn't already supported... at least the core features don't do anything special that requires a lock-in with the Big Three.

@alrs

@spiral @celia @alrs

The development of #gitea is going rapidly, and they are also excited to add federation support based on #forgefed + go-fed.org/ ..

github.com/go-gitea/gitea/issu

I love to be on @codeberg and they have a great interaction with Gitea project.. some members in the dev team.

Very nice is that #codeberg - already having Codeberg Pages - is planning on adding custom domain support (something I'm really waiting for.. will get me off gh-pages):

codeberg.org/Codeberg/Communit

@humanetech @codeberg @alrs @celia @spiral #Codeberg has just deleted all forks of the Cloudflare-Tor project (a project to protect the public from Cloudflare), without warning, falsely accusing them of publishing sensitive data, without evidence or redress. There are better options: git.sdf.org/humanacollaborator

@spiral @alrs @celia kubeless.io/ may or may not be easier or harder to set up than OpenFaaS. I haven't used either, just mentioning an option in the same space.

@celia yup. I don’t think it has been any better 🤔

@celia I'm curious about your motivations for ditching them. It makes things quite difficult, indeed.

@dachary Too much centralization eventually leads to unfavorable outcomes.

As someone who can help it before it gets uncontrollably bad, I want to. Others' (and mine) temporary inconvenience will have been worth it if we're able to build a healthier ecosystem in the long run. :)

@celia This is valuable insight.

It's a great reason for open source projects to *use* open source.

It dismays me to see so many open source users flock to Github with the justification that whether it's open or closed doesn't really affect them. It has an effoct on other developers seeking to integrate; open should support open.

@gemlog @klaatu The original toot isn't to say that there aren't alternatives to self-host a git instance. There are, and I do it too.

It's to say that tooling like CI/CD, serverless, and so on are way less likely to support anything but The Big Three.

@celia
I didn't mean to imply that either. Codeberg doesn't require self-hosting - you may use it like github. When these discussions come up I try and show that alternative to the big 3 is all.
@klaatu

@gemlog @klaatu @celia @koherecoWatchdog I think framagit is scheduled-not-yet-actually-scheduled for demolition at some point as a part of framasoft's de-de-googlification. It's probably best not to start new things there.

framablog.org/2019/09/26/lets-… doesn't mention framagit, but that also means it doesn't mention it as a core service to preserve.

@dsfgs @klaatu @celia Some people are indifferent about FOSS and non-FOSS, but they've decided that fewer people will avoid #Github & gitlab.com for ethical reasons than those who will go where everyone else is because they are too lazy to create an account on more than one forge. No idea why Github's email verification on every login isn't seen as the greater effort.

@celia @klaatu @dsfgs Projects that exist for the purpose of privacy and #MACFANG avoidance (e.g. #PTIO, #PRISMbreak) have chosen #Github and #Gitlab.com for their own projects, and this I find most revolting: lemmy.ml/post/35452

@koherecoWatchdog

Everyone lives a full life. Not everyone gets the same opportunity to pick what fills their life, though. People are busy. They have things they like to do or find easy, and things that are unpleasant or difficult.

People whose life is filled differently than yours, who have different priorities than yours, aren't any more lazy than you are lazy for not picking a more compassionate way to talk about the challenges standing in the way of software freedom.

@dsfgs @klaatu @celia

@deejoe @celia @klaatu @dsfgs I've been part of the #deleteGithub movement, so I've seen a lot of people's reasons behind staying on #Github. The top two reasons people give for opposing migration off Github: 1) unwillingness to create yet another account 2) being where everyone else is for project visibility. I wish I had kept stats, but that's burned in my memory. Point 1 is wholly a matter of effort.

@celia what's wrong with gitlab? It's open source so we can self host if anything goes south with gitlab.com.

@ParmuTownley
Gitlab.com and gitlab enterprise isn't opensource, just the community edition is
@celia

@ParmuTownley @celia Gitea is a community project. Gitlab is open core and thus in an unavoidable conflict of interest with its community.

@celia many companies will even put this as a requirement for hiring. This is why I'd like to see more services like sourcehut gain certain level of popularity in hopes that this will create standards like we have for authentication

@mauro Very true! And I _think_ it's not even to see code, it's more to see how active you are or what kind of work you do "in your free time."

It's messed up. The fact that this need can be filled by Gitea, but GitHub = code for HR and middle management. And the fact that we are also expected to be doing "cool stuff" in our off time.

Last year when I was looking for work, I think there was just one company that wanted to see the code and not the other public relations-like stuff.

@celia yup totally agree with that and specially now that Microsoft owns GitHub, I'm just waiting for the time they introduce some Developer Score like they do with Office

@mauro Wait, what score do they have in Office? 😱 I am completely unaware sorry!

@celia I haven't used Office in ages so I'm unaware to which extent this is enforced by employers but this is an article I read not long ago that I found very disturbing

forbes.com/sites/kateoflaherty

@mauro @celia Wait until they’re gonna link people Office productivity score with LinkedIn account and start marking people as “especially productive” and suff like that. 🙃

(Can’t happen in Europe however, thanks to GDPR laws.)

@meduz @celia Yup and the worst part is that many will be drinking the kool-aid

I wouldn’t be too sure about the GDPR saving our butts in the long run. E.g.: theguardian.com/world/2021/apr

@mauro @celia we have it enabled in our organization but nobody is looking for it. And any the companies who we outsourcing want an report form it... (maybe they don’t even know it is existing)

@emma @celia yup I can see that "the more info we can get the better" even if they are not currently using it but "might" at some point

@mauro, #SourceHut is amazingly convenient. It's CI/CD service is the number one coolest thing in the ecosystem I've seen so far! Whilst I moved all of my personal projects to sr.ht, some software I contribute to are still on GitHub and I contantly bug the maintainers to use builds.sr.ht as the/an additional CI (sometimes it works, e.g. for #Trio). SSH'ing into build machines, independant jobs and native images for most common distros are so overlooked.

/cc @celia

@mcsinyx @celia I agree, the work Drew and his team have done with Sourcehut is outstanding. My most favorite feature is how open they are.

I also moved my personal projects but for work it's been GitHub 100% for the past 7 years or so and I don't see that changing any time soon :(

huh using hashtags before checking common usage on the platform was a mistake

Sign in to participate in the conversation
Fosstodon

Fosstodon is an English speaking Mastodon instance that is open to anyone who is interested in technology; particularly free & open source software.