Would anyone like to study with me, and maybe build a full fledged application together? 🤷‍♀️

So we have more than 1 person interested in this!

I think it would be really cool to set up a Slack team and have everyone come over from different timezones and work on something together. Beautiful!

It would be like mirroring the current work situation of many companies.

Is there an alternative to that we could easily set up and use? comes to mind but idk how easy that is to set up + how/if we should split the hosting cost. Could I put it on my existing VPS maybe?!

@navitux @spectral_shadow @chrisburnell @tychi Why : FOSS, free hosted plan to get started with, apps for all 3 of Win/Mac/Linux + mobile.

@spectral_shadow github is github.com/hirusi/

No idea what to build. I'm just so frustrated there's so many concepts to go through. It would be nice to have a study partner and pace the learning together.

@celia mine is github.com/spectral369 (the testing one) add when you're ready !

@spectral_shadow will add today! do you use anything for IM? Maybe Matrix/Element (previously Riot)?

@celia only telegram, discord but I'll adapt :-) what's your free time?!? gmt?

@celia hmm my GMT is +2, and I get off work at ~5 PM( 7 PM your time) and at least twice a week I have football practice at 6:30 PM(atm).

@celia When you decide to start, invite me on github and I'll try to join when I can. Sorry at 1st I didn't think of this time delay :tiredcat:

@spectral_shadow No problem! I might have someone else who's also keen on joining but I'll have to check with them if they are OK with a 3-person group.

That said, is that alright by you too? :)

@celia @spectral_shadow a small tip to stay sane: stay away from class-level components. Recent versions of react are using state through the useState hook which you can use for functional components. Use functional over class-level components, your code will be 100% easier to learn, understand, maintain and less bug-prone.

@garritfra @spectral_shadow I've primarily used class based components. Your reply is a good nudge for me to ditch that and maybe try going the functional route 100%.

Would you have any pointers on "thinking in functions" for JS?

@celia learn the functional aspects of javascript, mainly lambdas (some may call them "arrow functions") and apply them to the common array functions .map(), .reduce() and .filter(). They are very helpful in general, but especially with react components. As a rule of thumb: If you see a for-loop, there's a 99% chance you can use .map() instead. Stay away from for-loops, they are messy! :)

@garritfra @celia @spectral_shadow I was really disappointed that React went this route. It used to be easy to tell if a component was stateless or stateful, based on whether the component was a class (stateful) or a function (stateless). In the name of being "simpler", now you have to look at the component implementation to see if the functional component uses hooks to see if it is stateful or stateless.

React with hooks should really be its own framework if they wanted it to be simpler.

@robby @spectral_shadow @celia but do you think it's necessary to know if a component is stateful or not? And even with the new API, IMO it's quite easy to spot if it is stateful. Usually, useState hooks are declared somewhat at the top of the function.

@garritfra @spectral_shadow @celia I see the point of React and similar frontend frameworks as helping you manage state on the front end. Managing components based on their statefulness / statelessness can make things easier to understand, debug, etc.

The React team decided that expecting developers to have a pre-existing understanding of OOP was too demanding. Their solution to this was to strip the language features of their previously embraced meaning, and expect developers to learn... both the old way and the new way if they want to be successful?

I'm not against the idea of hooks at all, but I think it should have been their own framework independent from React.
@garritfra @celia @spectral_shadow Classes encapsulate state and behavior. Functions return values. This is how lots of languages work, and it was a paradigm React embraced. In modern React however, classes encapsulate state and behavior, and functions... encapsulate state and behavior?

dumping on react 

@robby @celia @spectral_shadow @garritfra

This is a great example of how corporations have terraformed open-source. If React was a decentralized project, this type of decision would have fragmented the user base.

But because it's a project by a giant tech company, what benefits their business model is The One True Version.

I mean, arguably you can stay on an old version, but Google dominated the web by pouring resources into out building The Platform. Facebook, same thing.

@celia Actually, I was seeking a good framework to migrate a old project that I have in github is called "workshops" is monolithical and some ugly bit sice then, nobody has join me to improve it (I like that the backend was something like flask or django and the front something fresh and new like that)

@celia @navitux @spectral_shadow

I wish I knew more about open alternatives to have a valuable opinion!

Really, I'm happy to hop on whatever everyone else likes or wants to use.

If we end up with a self-hosted solution I'm also happy to help with costs! 😊

@chrisburnell @navitux @spectral_shadow Hey that's sweet!

I'll figure something out within a day and set something up for all of us to get started. It would be amazing to export this data later on and send an archive to everyone. I don't want to put too much effort in because I don't think there'd be much utility past a couple of months with our goals met (learn React + build an app).

@celia @chrisburnell @navitux I agree!
No. 1 priority is an Idea for a project where learning and searching is a must ! As you can see from my github it has been some time since I've used 'new' frameworks

@chrisburnell @celia @spectral_shadow
wow, man, thank you, I'm really sick for the way that those enterprices abuse of the ignorance of their average user and uses it to put its own business plan over the user and I want to be a great open source developer too

@celia @spectral_shadow @chrisburnell

By my part (as I have said) I have a project for a learning platform called "workshops" in github programmed in PHP but I want to migrate that project to Flask or Django and a good modern frontend framework, and would be great if you can participiate

@navitux @spectral_shadow @chrisburnell Personally, my focus won't be on backend, whether Flask/Django or any other framework or language. But it would be interesting to see what others say.

@spectral_shadow @navitux @chrisburnell @tychi It should work now. The default setting is to ignore disposable email addresses. 🤷‍♀️

@celia Is this also for JS learner? I have just started.

@suraj Not exactly. We're going to be focusing on React a lot but if you think it may help you, you're welcome to join and participate passively.

@tychi That sounds good to me! More people over on standards based IM. :)

Mattermost/Slack has channels which I thought might be useful later though.

@celia it's a tricky balance. I think having a URL that describes different channels in like Element or even IRC might be more liberating in the long term than falling back to slack or something less open.

Something like this tilde.chat/stats/ but for whatever your crew lands on using.

@celia There's always xmpp which is pretty trivial to self host (assuming you have some sysadmin skills.) If not you can purchase hosting for fairly cheap (about 17 cents a user a month) or use an existing server with free registration and just create a room for your project.

@splatt9990 Did you have something particular in mind when you said I can purchase XMPP hosting for 17 cents a month? That's a pretty reasonable price to pay to quickly get started. We only need this for a couple of months.

@celia I think I misread a different hosting provider's offer (it was 17 cents per user but, I believe a rather large amount monthly for a 1000 user instance). However, I did find this page with a few different providers available: wiki.xmpp.org/web/Jabber_Hosti

If you only need a few accounts, some of them are actually free. Most are pretty low cost (a few dollars a month or so)

@celia Alternatives that I know of are @matrix, Gitter (only hosted, will transition to Matrix) and zulipchat.com.

@vinnl @matrix Whoa did not know Gitter had been bought and is transitioning. That's super cool!

Also, seem enticing. Free plan, FOSS, and looks like a good competitor to Slack. :)

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