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All communication in goes through these tech giants: Amazon, Google, Microsoft and Cloudflare
Just texting goes through Amazon.
Group chat will also go through Google.
...
is toxic to free software, supports mass surveillance and a lot other very bad things. Supporting such companies means also supporting their culture and their dominance. It's never just about the privacy of a single person.

@briar What server network are they supposed to use with such quantities of users? Sure federation would technically work but signals goal is to be easy and painless to use for everyone.
Traffic is encrypted anyway so it really doesnt matter.

@briar write again when briar will have 100 million users, I would love to see you future message today 😀

@raimondaslapinskas @briar Briar doesn't need 100 million users to be successful IMO. I don't think it will ever be as popular as Signal, but it doesn't need to be. Signal is aiming at everyday use for normal people with the widest adoption possible. If your threat model includes shutdown of the entire Internet and/or natural disasters that destroy infrastructure, Briar would be great.

@be @briar yes i understand, but signal do what is needed now- not playing with IFs .... i don't think internet will go down in my lifetime 😀

@raimondaslapinskas @briar Internet shutdowns are not hypothetical threats. That literally just happened in Uganda a few days ago.

@raimondaslapinskas @briar What makes you think the UK government would never shut down the Internet?

@kev
And it's not only the content but even the sender's ID, so... we really don't care that much except if you believe they may cut Signal off one day.
I like the idea of the Briar project, but I really think there would be better ways to use your time than posting this type of message...
@briar

@kev @briar
Please be good and tell us why you're good, rather than telling us that others are bad.

@silmathoron @kev
(just to not cause confusion

This is an unofficial account run by a briar supporter. Me @syster

If you ever think "meh, briar" because of something you read here, you should probably think instead "meh, syster."

@silmathoron @kev @syster
I'll try to avoid such posts in future, but I also believe it's important to raise awareness about the importance of having the possibility to control infrastructure.

If you can't you're forced to go with what ever the leader choose. Signal is a nice messenger. Still it forces you to use the infrastructure the leader choose.

@silmathoron @kev @syster
It can be encrypted as much as something can be, what won't change by that:

- metadata will include ip and time.
- financial support for GAFAM
- marketing of GAFAM like: "if even this super secure chat is hosted at GAFAM, then GAFAM can't be too bad

Briar does not support GAFAM. Briar hides real IP over internet connection.
(this is not a statement to not use Signal, but to be critical)

@briar @kev @syster then I think it is good to talk about it in these terms and not the way it is framed in the initial post ;)

@briar just to play devil's advocate here, one could argue that by using tried and tested infrastructure, like that of GAFAM, Signal are ensuring that their service remains as stable as possible, yet as private as possible given the controls that are in place.

What reassurances to we have that Briar is of the same ilk in terms of infrastructure and stability?

@silmathoron @syster

@silmathoron @kev @briar
yes. bottleneck of Briar would be the Tor network since internet traffic is routed through it.
I don't see Tor going down, because of a chat.

@kev @briar @silmathoron
> ...like that of GAFAM, Signal are ensuring that their service remains as stable as possible,..

That's the sort of hidden marketing I mentioned, that #signal is (unintentionally) doing to #GAFAM.

It's one of the reason I dislike signal's decision, not a reason why I endorse their decision.

I use email for example. Since I'm using email, it was never down. Not a single time, even so it has much more user then signal.

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