I think my presence in the Apple ecosystem is pretty much decided. I hate this, my moral compass is screaming NO but my logic brain says “technology is meant to disappear behind your use” and that was not my experience with daily driving Linux

I hope you all have a better experience and continue to do so into the future. I don’t wish this cognitive dissonance on anyone

@brandon It boils down to who you trust, I suppose. While I disagree with the current state of development in Apple's ecosystem based on my own research (they could be doing more to treat third-party developers better), I am much more willing to trust them than Google or Facebook.

@marquiskurt That's fair. Apple has less incentive to sell your personal data due to their hardware sales and a lot of their services actually being built in house

@brandon Yeah. I was tired of the "Use Linux, but also try and be a person in the real world". I have a wife, child and friends who are not as enthusiastic about such things, and decisions made around services and tools directly affected their happiness, and thus, mine.

I wholeheartedly support Linux and Open-Source Software and its ideals. I just can't live the life.

@nathand Yup that's about where I am at this point. I want so bad to daily drive Linux but I just don't have the time to do that, try to evangelize, do my own personal projects, use open source software filing bugs where I can and maintain a full time job.

I mean, maybe I could, but that maintaining of your own system, I have enough of that with my homelab which at least does run on Linux

@brandon fair enough and in parts relatable. 🥴

however, may I politely ask you to change your mastodon account name to "I am a Data Slave, too"? 😉

@fedops but aren't we all slaves to our data? Even RMS is a slave to data, at least indirectly

@brandon as long as you're in command of your data I don't think so.

But nice handle update anyway! 😁

@fedops But that's the thing:

You walk into a mall, there's potentially face recognition being done and used to serve ads.

You make a credit or debit card transaction, that data is potentially being sold.

Someone else posts a picture of you on social media, your face is being processed. The location of that photo might be associated with your face too.

There's loads of ways that our data's being processed that's completely invisible

@brandon indeed. Which is one reason why it's so important that ownership of the data is clear, and also laws regulate what can and cannot be done to and with this data.

To those ends the EU and the rest of the world have very different regulations. Over here it is clear that a picture of your face or a trail of your GPS data is your property, not the property of whoever acquired it.

Whether or not that is a blunt sword to wield is besides the point - at least the law is on your side.

@fedops Your use of language suggests that personal data is a kind of property, but the EU actually realised that this does not work very well and defined new language with terms like "controller", "processor", and "subject". That's also an important thing to clarify: personal data is not property, it cannot be owned like property, and it cannot be sold like property.

@kakure I cannot speak for every country in the EU but I'm somewhat familiar with the German law which works with the terms "Recht" and "Eigentum". Eigentum translates to property, Recht would be akin to control. One context these terms are used under is with images of yourself. If you are the main subject of an image (rather than, say passing through in the background of an image of a city scene) you own the right to that image both in the sense of control and property.

@kakure and indeed you can sell those rights. A common application is a model release form, were a photographic model sells their right to and control of images for certain expressly stated purposes, such as publication or use in commercials.

@metaphil Fuck :P I knew some people would rib me on this one but I wasn't expecting this.

That being said, fair is fair, I will kindly oblige

@brandon don't feel bad, convenience trumps independence for 90%+ of people. Homesteading isn't for everyone. No point in making any excuses.

@fedops That's the thing, I'm still maintaining an open source server stack as much as possible, it's just the phone and laptop that I use will now be Apple owned.

@brandon I like how you're totally realistic about who actually owns the devices you paid for. 😂😂😂

Nothing against what you're doing if it weren't for the fact that a subverted operating system puts your data in jeopardy no matter what the stack on top is. The backdoors built into the OS just make the whole thing untrustworthy. Bit of a shame.

@fedops Well initially I did mean to say "Apple made" rather than owned but that is certainly an interesting way to look at it. Apple technically has the power to decide that my phone no longer functions with the services that I originally purchased it for.

And they also have the power (with my given consent for the update) to change how I use the device as a part of their software development.

It really is a shame that security and privacy can't be more convenient. 1/2

@fedops Maybe one day these Linux phones will reach a point of mainstream viability and then we won't have to deal with Google OR Apple to begin with!

That's the dream in my mind. That we have tools and services that allow us to do all the same stuff that's been enabled by the likes of Apple, Google, and Microsoft all on a set of Linux devices 2/2

I can understand your frustrations. But what seems to be working okay for me and my house is Linux based laptops, either Debian or Linux Mint. I'm still stuck in the Google verse for the convenience and usefulness of things. I just tried Google lens after taking a picture and I was really impressed with the text copy and paste feature. One thing I enjoy about having gotten out of IT, I don't have to play with Microsoft's shit.


@kai I honestly don't think I could. Oats do some weird stuff to my digestive system. You wouldn't want to be around me :P

@brandon I more so meant the psychological aspect

@brandon I'm going to stick with Linux because macOS feels too constraining for me as a developer, but as a human I wish every Linux desktop developer tried using a Mac for some time just to figure out what we're doing wrong in terms of UX.

@brandon For example, why the f*ck do I have to type my password 3 times every time I reboot my laptop? (once for disk encryption, once to log in, and once to unlock kwallet).

Ok, with some manual configuration i could bring them down to 2... but isn't it my distro's job to get this right? I'm looking at you, #fedora and #ArchLinux 😡

@codewiz @brandon I understand why this would be a good thing for Ubuntu or even Fedora, but I believe the entire raison d'être of Arch is that you configure that yourself.

@raucao @codewiz @brandon Wrong, the reason of using arch is so you compile your own firmware. It just gives you a assembly compiler and the editor ed with no bells or whistles.

@codewiz @brandon I really wonder why there aren't more filesystem encryption solutions that automatically encrypt your entire home folder and decrypt it when you log in like Ubuntu's ecryptfs does... especially for distros like Fedora Silverblue where most of your stuff ends up in your home folder anyway

@codewiz @brandon FWIW, if you're interested in security, I can think of some reasonably compelling reasons for needing to do it 3 times...

@lightweight @codewiz @brandon And probably these should all be different passwords, because they're doing different jobs ...

@yojimbo @codewiz @brandon yup. An encrypted laptop might be used by multiple people, so needs a secret that can be shared by those people. Logging into a desktop is another privilege, but if you want to protect your secrets on computers that you might occasionally leave sitting on a desk in an office, you might another layer of security. Someone accessing your desktop probably shouldn't also equal access to all your secrets.

@yojimbo @codewiz @brandon also worth noting that the bridging code that'd need to propagate your password between these various systems at different layers within your system would be a very fraught bit of code.

@codewiz @brandon To be fair I don’t have to do it three times on arch personally, but there are ruddy good reasons why separation of that auth is a good idea. That said there are ways to make that work, most ways lower your security posture though. (Full disclosure I use MacOS, Linux, BSD, and Windows on the daily)

@codewiz @brandon And by manual configuration you mean a checkbox that auto logs you into the desktop?

@codewiz Funny enough, on macOS, encryption is almost invisible! I type in a single password on boot and I'm unencrypted, logged in, and my keychain is unlocked

@brandon @codewiz When you look at your threat models, this could be "just fine".

@codewiz I'd rather not have the dock thing and global menu, personally :blobcatgoogly:


>“technology is meant to disappear behind your use”

Good luck with that using Apple if you want to do something they don't believe you should do, I guess?

@tagomago This was indeed a frustration at the beginning but I've learned how to get around certain things but also how to deal with certain other things that I can't really change.

Example: I was so annoyed that I couldn't get local music syncing via NextCloud directly to a music player.

I figured out I should just load my music to my phone manually and make the playlists and whatnot on the desktop. Saves time too!

@brandon Exactly, that's what I'm talking about. You'll be finding more and more of these "quirks" where you have to give in and probably compromise your workflow without any perk, and eventually they will drive you nuts, OR you can sublimate that morphing into a fanboy (which also happens with GNU Linux) 😁.

@brandon completely understand this and I am regrettably in the same boat. I have decided to compromise by owning Linux devices and Apple devices and then picking the best tool for the job.

@riddian Yup, that's exactly it. I feel like for what I want to do, Apple devices and Linux servers do the best job *for me*

I think a pragmatic approach is necessary when it comes to technology.

There's very little difference in tangible harm that is done to me based on whether I use an Android or an iOS phone, especially since the only Android phone I have cannot be rooted :P

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