I don’t think he has ever been transphobic, but I can believe the guy who made Emacs is an ableist, and no need to argue about the misogynist part
REGARDLESS, even if he was innocent of all accusations, the fact the FSF needed Stallman back is a sign they’re not actually capable of taking their own direction. Would the FSF just dissolve if he died?
Like, yeah, I can easily argue RMS doesn’t actually hate anyone or think women and children are his toys or anything like that. I can argue that just has very, very out of touch opinions.
This doesn’t matter.
First, because he’s still not a good representative of the community when defending these ideas. If you’re gonna have community leadership, it should be as inclusive as possible, and Stallman does the opposite there.
But more importantly, wouldn’t you want to grow up past him? We should have already moved on back when he called Miguel de Icaza a traitor (oh yeah, that was something), but the FSF didn’t feel like his time was out. They’re gonna stick with him as much as they can. For what? Is his ego’s presence really worth throwing out decades of the movement he created for?
@shellkr @famicom @xerz Thanks, but no thanks. While I respect the work that was done there 35 years ago, I don’t believe the FSF has been relevant for the problems we face today for a while now. Not to mention that I have no desire whatsoever to lead any sort of hierarchy. Heck, I wake up every day and try to write code that I hope will make hierarchies optional instead of a fact of life :)
@be @Seirdy @xerz @shellkr @famicom I love this. Just skimmed it and will have a think to see if there’s anything I can add. On first thought, I’d love to see a few of the Small Tech principles that are missing covered (like inclusivity and non-colonialism) https://small-tech.org/about/#small-technology
I see this as very much compatible with small tech and something we could get behind :)
@be No obligation to answer, but I'm curious, what do you dislike about sourcehut? Totally just curious, not judging in any way. I've been trying to figure out a better place to host my small lil projects and stuff for a while so kinda seeing what people say about different services. ( have been using gitlab but.. /shrug )
@amatecha I honestly haven't looked that deeply into its features or UI. I love that it provides SSH access to CI VMs. But I think email is an outdated, clumsy technology that shouldn't be used for modern workflows. The guy behind it is also known to have strong Opinions. Some of them I agree with, but many I'm just like... err wat? I don't really trust someone like that to be good at UX design.
@be Oh wait, you can interact with the repos with a normal git client, right? ... or no? (and yeah, the web interface is not top-notch UX IMO, tho I can make sense of it at least, mostly 😅 ) Yeah, I notice that a lot of FOSS projects seem to rely on email, which surprises me a bit (even if I understand its staying power)...
@be @xerz @aral @laura @shellkr @famicom My main concern is that codeberg, github, gitlab, all the other gitea/gogs instances, etc. are basically the same; they’re all walled gardens and closed platforms that lock you in through issues/PRs/social features. They’re good examples of how “open source” software for collaboration/communication isn’t exactly “free” without an underlying implementation-agnostic open platform. I wrote about this in the article I linked and its seqel.
Email is federated and implementation agnostic. Furthermore, members have an offline copy of all patches/issues in a standard and interoperable format (maildir or mbox). If a remote goes down, you can switch to a different head of your hydra and keep working; if your mailing list server goes down, you can still contact others and send patches since email easily handles downtime and you can still CC contributors directly. The distributed model of git also works for issues over email.
This approach scales to projects with thousands of contributors that experience multiple migrations without issue. I’m not aware of a better example of user freedom that makes vendor lock-in completely impossible. There is no implementation, platform, or single piece of software to trust in a mailing-list-based git workflow besides git itself, and git has multiple implementations of its own.
That’s my sales pitch for distributed collab with DVCS systems. Oh boy I really need to write Hydra Hosting Part 2, don’t I?
@Seirdy @xerz @aral @laura @shellkr @famicom Facebook is a walled garden. I think it's a stretch to call Gitea a walled garden. In principle I agree that interoperability and decentralized architecture are generally desirable, but I don't think these properties are strictly required for all communal software and there can be good technical/practical reasons for not prioritizing or implementing them depending on the specific application.
@Seirdy @xerz @aral @laura @shellkr @famicom Anyway, I'm not really interested in discussing which tools to use for the "Towards A Communal Software Movement" document. It's just a single Markdown document in a static site generator. This isn't a large complex code base that people will grow and maintain far into the future, so I don't think the choice of tools is super important. Yeah, the repo may live well into the future, but it's just a tiny static site.
@be @Seirdy @xerz @shellkr @famicom @laura Building tech in a manner that doesn’t centre yourself. Understanding that you are not the best to build for communities that you are not part of so making things others can adapt, host, and use themselves. When what you make scales, you don’t have to scale alongside it. On a technical level, related to share alike and interoperability.
@aral @be @Seirdy @xerz @shellkr @famicom @laura I think that's similar to the "toolkits over frameworks" kind of idea I wrote about yesterday, no? I was missing an aspect of that as well. But not so technically prescriptive, so perhaps the "colonial" term is better - but it would need some explanation.
I very much like the text as an early draft. I think it's currently a bit long and a tad unstructured; but each point is something I can subscribe to.
I say "early draft", because... ok, so this is a bit tricky.
I know that we're all reacting to things having gone wrong somewhere, so the easiest thing to do is to say "not like that". And while I don't particularly need to hide the bad examples we don't like, I also think that what we should..
So I have a few issues with "not like RMS", "not like FSF", "not like capitalism", not because I disagree with the sentiment, but I think it would be helpful to start each idea with:
a) how things should be
b) how we would like to make that happen,
and only in c) go into negative examples.
A lot of work, I know. I'll try and come up with a few PRs. over time.
@bhaugen @Seirdy @xerz @aral @shellkr @famicom Sorry, I misunderstood your question as asking specifically about charitable advocacy organizations. In broader terms, I think the organizational form best for any particular project is idiosyncratic. Some may establish independent organizations to sponsor developers like Krita and Ardour. But that model isn't appropriate for projects that have no desire to have money involved. Some may join SF Conservancy, or a larger org like KDE or GNOME.
@bhaugen @Seirdy @xerz @aral @shellkr @famicom Right, a movement made up of many projects that operate cooperatively to produce technology. Is there a need for some larger coordination between projects? I'm not sure? I guess Linux distributions and organizations like Freedesktop kinda fulfill that role? There are also general conferences like FOSDEM and Linux Conf Au. Do you have ideas for how larger inter-project organization could help?
> Do you have ideas for how larger inter-project organization could help?
I've been involved in a couple of attempts, neither completely successful. This was one: https://www.loomio.org/g/exAKrBUp/open-app-ecosystem
Not a total failure, either. Some interesting work came out of it.
I continue to focus on software for real-life communities to use, though. So communal in that way.
@bhaugen @Seirdy @xerz @aral @shellkr @famicom I kinda feel like the fediverse is part of that organization. I only joined the fediverse a few months ago and I've had *way* more interactions with people working on other software on here than I ever did before. Previously, I generally only interacted with other software projects when I used them and had a question or wanted to report a bug.
Fosstodon is an English speaking Mastodon instance that is open to anyone who is interested in technology; particularly free & open source software.