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Linux distributions in a nutshell

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@be I wouldn't touch anything from redhat with a 10-foot pole!!

@braunne I've been using Fedora for 15 years and been happy with it ๐Ÿคท

@be didn't realize fedora existed 15 years ago!

@braunne Fedora was started in 2003. I've been using it since Fedora Core 3 released in 2004.

@braunne @be I think it would be pretty tough to run any linux distribution that doesn't contain major pieces done by Red Hat.

@braunne @be Well, I can't remember if Lennart was with Red Hat when Pulse Audio was started, but I was on FESCO when we approved it to be used as the default in Fedora.

@bpepple @be Again, I replace pulseaudio with ALSA in the GNU space. In the BSD space, I don't have to worry about redhat mucking it

@braunne @be And again, going back to the initial toot, I'm trying to think of any major piece of new software in linux distros that isn't heavy developed by Red Hat. Snap? Though I'm not sure how much that's used outside of Ubuntu.

@bpepple @braunne RedHat pretty much funds the Linux desktop ecosystem. 81% of commits to GTK4 were from RedHat employees: blog.gtk.org/2020/12/17/who-wr

@be @bpepple maybe. But I use neither, in the GNU space.. BSD space is mostly pure

@braunne @be Well of course, but the initial toot was talking about Linux not BSD.

@be

Not minimising #RedHat's weight in the #Linux ecosystem, but #GTK is hardly *the* desktop.

And #RedHat is also responsible for some pretty questionable stuff such as #pulseaudio and #systemd.

@bpepple @braunne

@0 @be @braunne Well, last time I looked Gtk had the majority % of desktops in the linux ecosystem.

I wouldn't describe either pulseaudio (which I don't remember people having much of a problem with) or systemd as being questionable. If they weren't technically sound they wouldn't have had buy-in from the majority of the linux distributions.

@0 @be @braunne Not really, before adopting a new technology most distributions do a fairly thorough review/testing of a technology before making it the default. For example, just look at the techinical review Debian did for a few years before making systemd the default.

@bpepple

Respectfully, I wouldn't use #Debian as an example of thoroughness and technical acumen.

As for #pulseaudio, I had that shit disabled / painfully uninstalled for years until it became stable enough not to disrupt desktop usage (and I don't even use sound).

I think both got adopted because it was *a* solution and nobody else wanted / had the resources to come up with something better.

Again, not putting down #RedHat, just relativising the โ€œ#RH is #Linuxโ€ claim.

@be @braunne

@0 @be @braunne Pretty much disagree with everything you wrote here, especially since I was involved with the PulseAudio becoming the default in Fedora back in 2007. Anyway, not much sense in arguing further.

@bpepple
Well, at least you got some honest user feedback! ๐Ÿ˜œ
@be @braunne

@bpepple @braunne @be In all honesty all the major distros has their hands in development in some way or the other. RedHat/Fedora has never had a big community like Debian and Arch but is pretty much the only one that has had money to pay developers (bar Ubuntu) and thus has their hand in most of the infrastructure. Nothing is developed by RedHat/Fedora alone though.

@shellkr @braunne @be I'd say Fedora / Debian are fairly close to the same size in regards to developers/community. Last time I checked (which was awhile ago) Arch wasn't even close in size, I believe they had 25 or so folks maintaining the Core/Extra repos.

@bpepple @braunne @be I guess it depends on how you calculate... When I talk about community I mean usage and total package management. When I have tried Fedora (although now it was quite some time ago) it was always lacking of packages and I had to build some myself. It was one of the reasons why I went with Arch eventually. I also think this was one of the reasons behind the Flatpack idea. Fedora didn't have enough of a community to build packages for it. Not an issue on Debian and Arch.

@shellkr The number of packages in Fedora as far as I'm aware wasn't even a consideration in creating Flatpak.

Alex started Flatpak to take advantage of things like OSTree, cgroups, namespaces, bind mounts, seccomp, etc and solve some of the short-comings of distribution packages.

@bpepple Still that has been a long time issue of Fedora... I get why he wouldn't want to use this as an official reason.

The thing is that it doesn't solve that many issues of package maintenance on distros like Arch and Debian because they have an active community taking care of it.. Mostly it solves issues of closed source packages. it even come with some security issues of its own. Like keeping deps updated e.t.c...

@shellkr I'm not sure where you are getting your information that Fedora has a smaller/less active community than Arch and Debian. As someone who was fairly active in the Fedora packaging throughout the years, your statements seem significantly off-base.

@bpepple It perhaps is.. My experience of Fedora is mostly based on about 10 years ago. Things might have improved the last couple of years. It is also based on number of packages available and that it is very rare to find a Fedora user in the wild. I have been in the Linux community since -98 and actually started with RedHat if you don't count Slackware at a friends house around -96. So I wouldn't say I am totally out of touch even though I may not have insight on everything..

@bpepple Also.. those Fedorians I do find in the wild (and not on IRC) is usually super awesome! Fedora as a distro is extremely important for how Linux evolve. So I am not trying to be partial here... I am just talking of my experience...

@shellkr @bpepple I have been using Fedora for 15 years and I disagree that a lack of packages is a major issue.

@be And NixOS to complain about the lack of $PREFIX and /bin/bash shebangs :D

@be@fosstodon.org untill eventually for slackware to consider it a bloat and not include it in their perfect distribution

@be

fedora to develop ? mmmmm

ibm-red hat do develop, suppress or embrace another mandatory system tool and wait for it to be included every where is much more the real thing.

@be Which thread is this comment from? I still have a Reddit account and this guy deserves to be upvoted :)

@be somewhere in the middle of this there should be a Gentoo package fork removing systemd dependency.

@be why mess up work, that others are already doing?

@be wow, it's like the 5th time this toot has appeared in my timeline; you gotta be famous! ๐Ÿ˜… ๐Ÿ™‚

@rugk Ha I turned off notifications for this toot because they got so annoying. I did gain a handful of new followers.

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