@atoponce OMG Linus vs german vaccination critic.
Althought he stayed relatively calm, way more than i could if i would here such idiotic stuff.

@atoponce

so he's for giving people COVID-19 en masse and all the negative effect that bring with it Go to know he's for world wide experimental testing

@atoponce

Amusing! 🤣

I agree with Linus both on the matter and on the tone BUT

- he is not a physician: technically speaking his words on the topic should be taken as those of the random guy on the street¹
- he called "idiotic" someone he doesn't agree with: how will the Linux Foundation TAB react to this?

AFAIK they should punish him for being unwelcoming, but he is also right and they do not want to be associated with anti-vax.

🤷‍♂️

¹ indeed he also said something most family physicians who actually work with people in their territory would not agree with: the drop in the deaths rate from covid right now is largely due to the summer not the vaccines, in the winter we will see if it worked for real (as I think and hope)

@atoponce That's annoying. Because a douch (Enrico here) presents the most stupid argument - or troll against this rushed and unproven yet vaccine (long term people, long term!) - people like Linus jump into the place with sounded argument but discard the fact that we don't have the data, we are close to summer so, case drops AND this disease is mild for most!

@hicks
Whatever the long term effects of the various vaccines might br, they are likely a pittance compared to the long term effects of COVID-19. (Writing this from a vaccination center where I just got vaccinated 💉)
@atoponce

@awaspnest
- First: "Whatever" is not acceptable. I do hope you are not MD.
- Second: Show me the data about the long term effects of COVID-19 (severity, demographic, etc...)
- Third: 0.04% of the global population died allegedly of the COVID19. When I say "allegedly" I don't pretend COVID does not kill but it might be not the only/main factor in most cases.
- Fourth: Where is the hurry?

@atoponce

@hicks
The hurry is that people are dying and the virus is mutating... Ultimately, it seems like most "intelligent" arguments against getting vaccinated boil down to "no amount of risk is worth protecting others." Which I find quite antisocial.
@atoponce

@awaspnest
There is known safe treatment for Covid, vax not needed. No known treatments for side effects of vax. Vax uses gene therapy technology. Recovery rate of C19 is 99.8%. majority of those who died where: over 70yo, obese, underlying conditions.
All the above is verifiable.
It's not about the virus!
@hicks @atoponce

@Horizon_Innovations
The recovery rate for mRNA vaccines is 100%. Old People and obese people are people too, who also deserve not to die.
@hicks @atoponce

@awaspnest There are people too indeed and for them the balance Benefit/Risk would make sense.

@Horizon_Innovations @atoponce

@awaspnest
No one deserves to die. According to official reporting, over 5k in US & over 12k in Europe have died from C19 vax, needlessly. HCQ & ivermectin both work well & don't have a side effect of death.
@hicks @atoponce

@Horizon_Innovations @awaspnest @hicks

FUD.

5,208 have died from 302,000,000 vaccinations in the United States, or a rate of 0.0017%.

596,572 deaths from 33,259,537 confirmed cases in the United States, or a race of 1.79%.

That's an unvaccinated death rate of 1,000 times, or three full orders of magnitude compared to those who are vaccinated.

The vaccinations are safe and effective. Stop spreading antivax FUD.

@atoponce
I'm not antivax in general. I am against gene therapy drugs that aren't needed. Your figures show those who died from C19 without treatment of ivermectin or HCL, so the survival rate should be higher. The swine flu vax was pulled at 53 deaths, how many more should die before this "vax" should be pulled? How many "vax" deaths are ok as collateral damage, "for the greater good"? And the "vax" trials don't finish until 2023!

@awaspnest @hicks

@Horizon_Innovations
I'm not an expert–I'm just doing my best to echo the consensus of experts (Which is that the all COVID Vaccines released so far are safe/effective) I understand why you think those links say that there are Covid vaccines utilizing gene therapy, but if you read them they don't.
@atoponce

@Horizon_Innovations @atoponce
asgct.org/research/news/novemb really does seem to indicate that the Vacinee Candidates (at that point) were utilizing gene therapy—However, this indication isn't enough overcome the actual text + videos on the page which clearly show that the genes are not modified in cells receiving the mRNA.

@Horizon_Innovations
academic.oup.com/intimm/advanc Does have "utilizing gene therapy technology" in the title, but if you read more of the paper, you see that they are stating that they are using technology developed for gene therapy, but not modifying the genes in anyway. Nowhere does it indicate that any approved vaccines are modifying cells' genes.

@Horizon_Innovations
fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologi
"Gene therapy is a technique that modifies a person’s genes to treat or cure disease."

These vaccines are less invasive than SARS-CoV-2, because viruses infect your cells with DNA/RNA in order to take control, but aren't concerned with whether if you (or the cell) survive or not.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus
"When infected, a host cell is forced to rapidly produce thousands of copies of the original virus."

Obligatory xkcd: xkcd.com/2397/

@awaspnest
I'm not here to argue, just help people think beyond the narrative. & Dr Fauci lied!
I'll leave you with this:
When an injection puts synthetic RNA (genes) into your cells to produce a spiked protein that's meant to illicit an immune response. 1. your cells are not meant to produce a spiked protein because 2. They are a toxin.
The C19 "vax" 1. does not stop infection, 2. does not stop transmission. These 2 are what vaccines are meant to do.
Given these details, what is this injection?

@Horizon_Innovations I don't mind going back and forth with you! I think this is an important topic.
I really see where the confusion is coming from here: Yes, mRNA enters the cell, but it's interpreted by the ribosome (3), and does not enter the nucleus where the genes are kept (1).
hopkinsmedicine.org/health/con
"The messenger RNA from two of the first types of COVID-19 vaccines does enter cells, but not the nucleus of the cells where DNA resides."

@Horizon_Innovations To your other points:
1) Your cells are quite flexible in what they can do, if you get Covid-19 they'll be producing the same spike protein + a lot more.
2) The efficacy of these vaccines has been answered elsewhere in this thread, but look at case study consider Israel: ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

@Horizon_Innovations
Finally, as a note about Dr. Fauci: I think this is a lot bigger than one person, or even one country.
scientists and governments across the world (many of whom aren't that friendly with each-other) have come to an agreement about the danger of Covid-19 and the usefulness of these vaccines to save lives.
If this is conspiracy, it's required millions of researchers, medical professionals, and government workers working in unison to cover it up.

@awaspnest Again, while we should appreciate details about this vaccine, this is the wrong discussion IMHO.
Like @Horizon_Innovations said: there's no proof it stops infection and transmission. That's enough to me.
This kind of rush and new target to reach is just a political move in front of a mild disease - for 99.x% of the population.

@hicks @Horizon_Innovations Actually, you might be surprised to learn that the effect of these vaccines on transmission and infection has been studied, and they do greatly reduce transmission and infection.

cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7

cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0

nature.com/articles/s41591-021

biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/20 (Animal study 🐈)

There are also many articles summarizing these results.

@Horizon_Innovations @atoponce
The problem with all the reports of "deaths after vaccination" that I could find, is that the deaths weren't caused by the vaccine, and the overall rate is normal within the population. People die, it's sad but it does happen. With AstraZeneca + Johnson & Johnson, there is a slightly higher risk of blot clots in certain demos, but it's still quite a small risk.
msn.com/en-xl/news/other/fact-

@Horizon_Innovations Also, over 400 people died from Covid-19 in the US yesterday. That's down from over 3000 a day in January. If we could effectively treat Covid-19 patients like you suggest, no one has told that to the 10,000's of overworked ER doctors & nurses.

@awaspnest I am also annoyed by person using this argument against Pfizer. I don't give a shit about techno behind, the balance and the outcome -> surviving is what matters to me.

I feel people are fooling each others:
The pros Pfizer "hey look, mRNA is high-tech, they can reconfigure the vacc blah blah", people against: "this is gene therapy or experimental"

@Horizon_Innovations @atoponce

@hicks
Yeah, it really bugs me when people say that vaccines are equivalent to gene therapy too. 👍
@Horizon_Innovations @atoponce

@awaspnest
Yeah, really bugs me when people don't do their own research.
Everything I've written is verifiable, happy to provide links & details.
However, if you're happy where you're at, that's fine too.
@hicks @atoponce

@atoponce that is maybe the best explanation about the subject and worth sharing

@Calypso1 @atoponce It was a surprisingly nice explanation, but the best tl;dr explanation is still: xkcd.com/2425/

@atoponce Yeah, that antivaxxer stance is not helpful and some statements are just wrong, but there could be some valid points there:

youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqt

@atoponce Hmm... Enrico Weigelt... That name rings a bell.... Where do I remember this name from?

@atoponce At least some of these people are starting to wear masks because they think they'll get vaccinated from being around other people. For some reason they think the vaccination is virtual and not the virus.

@atoponce pfizer/biontech/moderna want us to treat their system like a new operating system. Well I don't want a new operating system, I just want to run GNU+linux. Which means replacing their proprietary stack of vaccine manufacture with some kind of linux module. It is relevant to them imho

@utahcon It really is, especially coming from a software engineer, because let's face it, medical science isn't that vastly different from technical science.

@atoponce
Insulting people never gets them to change their mind. And it's just a bad thing to do in general. I never really followed Linus, and now I'm definitely not going to.

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