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@Linux4Everyone @rghvdberg Its so insanely broken to ask foss creators to join a discord channel to promote their work. please stop doing this.

@gcrkrause @rghvdberg and yet so many have, and so many more people have learned about their projects on Discord. . .

Look, I get your frustration. But I go where people actually are. My audience is NOT hardcore Linux users. They're open-minded ones. users who don't diss people running Windows, or people who use commercial software.

Savvy developers go where their audience is.

@Linux4Everyone You don't seem to get my frustration. You could build up a bridge to a free alternative, and I wouldn't even care for your usage of Discord. But you are actually using your network coverage promoting commercial shit. Thats not the spirit of FOSS.

@gcrkrause if a quality and comparable FOSS alternative to Discord existed, I WOULD promote it first.

@gcrkrause @rghvdberg I better not see them promoting their work on Twitter or Facebook then! CRIMINAL!

@Linux4Everyone Thanks for proving you are not even interested in a discussion about this. Have a nice day, bye

@gcrkrause I'm sorry but @Linux4Everyone is not in the wrong here. As a Linux user through and through, I've yet to see any kind of an alternative to Discord that is easy to deploy, easy to cross-pollinate between servers, and easy to use.

And before you say, Matrix isn't it because it's hard to deploy and onboard. I know because I had to waste a solid week's worth of free time to figure out which parts to drop and which to map in certain ways in a docker-compose.

@root nothing of this explains why it aligns with Foss principles to promote non free networks.

@root also I can't see how your anecdote of a matrix deployment proofs anything. Its harder to deploy something which needs to be deploy compared to something which doesn't? That's cool. Its also easier to use the preinstalled windows on notebooks and still nobody in Foss community would promote it.

I mean, I have no problems with you using it. Actually I have an account there, too. But I don't like this uncritical promoting of proprietary networks in the Foss world these days.

@gcrkrause what's hypocritical about using networks with the largest known reach and easiest onboarding process?

Seriously.

If there was a F/OSS alternative to Discord that was just as easy to onboard into and in which basically nigh everyone in the F/OSS community (and adjacent) were present in some way, he'd be there. Hell, I'd be there.

There isn't. So he's basically, in a way, stuck using the tools available right now.

@root Do you even try to understand my point?

I don't care for the usage. Really. Use it!

@gcrkrause I see your point on two fronts:

If looking at it from a F/OSS "hardliner" point of view, yes, you might have remotely something to argue.

However, L4E is trying to do communications and coordination stuff. So even though you might have a point from a F/OSS hardliner lens, F/OSS being about choice (in my opinion), these FOSS creators are free to join the Discord instance - or not. It's up to them.

Telling L4E "knock it off with proprietary chat tools" is gatekeeping.

@root I did not said this. Please just stop mentioning me if you don't even read what I wrote. thanks.

@gcrkrause @root Don't shame people into FOSS! It's completely contraproductive. It's always better if people start using FOSS because it's the better alternative. Currently there isn't a better alternative to Discord. The UX of Matrix/Element is from my experience wonk and, buggy. For non tech enthusiasts as well as people who don't have the time to be a full time proponent of FOSS there no reason to migrate from Discord.

I get that it is frustrating to you. It is also frustrating to me for multiple other reasons.

@interru @root i did not intended to "shame" anyone into Foss, I just kindly asked to stop promoting non-free services. Why are you all accusing me for weird stuff I didn't said? You are the third now. O.o

@interru And I never mentioned Matrix, why are you? I never asked to migrate somewhere, I did not promoted matrix.

Please just read what I wrote before blaming me for random nonsense.

@interru
Leaving the whole floss discussion aside for a bit, is Discord the best choice?

I've been using it for years and it's just horrible. My calls drop every single day, notifications don't show, the client is electron based eating a ton of resources, the mic quality is abysmal in private servers, etc.
I had a beter experiance using EVEN skype or ms teams

Just because something works for you, doesn't mean it's universal. Especially if it forbids alternative clients.
@gcrkrause @root

@wuwei @interru slack has just as many issues with push notifs; slack's onboarding for multiple instances isn't good or even there; teams a shit; no actual FOSS alternatives to Discord with good UI/UX worth a damn.

It may not be the best, but it's sure as hell not the worst.

@root
Again, to you specifically.
Your experiances are not universal. Your opinions are subjective. Just like everyones.
I'm sorry but you have a hard time showing you figured out that people have different opinions and preferences.

@interru

@Linux4Everyone please do not use Discord for FOSS things, it is really promoting bad practices...

getting really hard to avoid now :(

@falktx I have 700+ people in our Discord server. Should I NOT tell them about all the great projects FOSS developers are working on?

Please, please, do not have this kind of gatekeeping attitude.

@Linux4Everyone it is not gatekeeping to want open-source, privacy-respecting tools for the community.
might as well be on facebook then, it has the largest amount of users possible.

as someone who cares about my own privacy, sorry but services like those are abhorrent.

on an alternative POV.. what about all the people that are not ok with discord ToS? they can't join your community.

@rghvdberg @Linux4Everyone matrix seems to be the best place to be right now yes

hope their IRC bridge keeps working for many years 🖥️

@falktx @rghvdberg @Linux4Everyone
I believe matrix have a discord bridge, so you can connect your communities together. Its the best of both worlds.

@futureisfoss @falktx @rghvdberg We've connected them, but Matrix leaves something to be desired. It doesn't have the same "rich experience" as Discord with the various channels and integrated features.

@Linux4Everyone
But matrix has `/confetti` and that blows any other messaging client away.
Try it, you'll love it
@futureisfoss @falktx

@Linux4Everyone
I'm not saying that you shouldn't use discord at all. We have to be in non-private platforms to share the message of privacy to those who don't know, talking about the importance of privacy on a privacy friendly platform is like preaching to the choir. I'm just saying that you shouldn't promote the use of these platforms, we're on it just cause there are more people on them.
@falktx @rghvdberg

@futureisfoss fair enough. but feels very odd (to say the least) to be asking people to join such platforms.

it is a tricky situation... as a developer I do not want to promote or even tolerate abusive choices from some platforms. yet 99% of people are on there.
it sets a bad example for others in my view, where it can easily lead to the impression that these platform practices are tolerable.
so while we purposefully avoid those places, how do we reach their people at the same time? we can't :(

@falktx
In this case, the matrix bridge helps a lot imo. Matrix users appear as bots in discord, this sometimes start a conversion about matrix among discord users. Another thing to keep in mind is to never promote such platforms - in the above message, he could've at least mentioned matrix and talk about discord as a second option. I don't know what he himself use, but its better to be on a FOSS platform, so that his followers see him use it and maybe decides to join.

@falktx @Linux4Everyone spot on. I completely agree with your point of view @falktx . Not bashing on discord, nor those who use it. Having said that, platforms that the influencers use and promote, have an impact on lots of people. Promoting FOSS platforms helps a ton.

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