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Given the state of GTK4, GNOME's intentions with regards to theming and it opening the door to fragmentation, proposed changes for GTK5, and lack of confidence that is producing an equitable ecosystem for the Linux community, @Solus will be working to build an ecosystem with . 11 will not use GTK. joshuastrobl.com/2021/09/14/bu

@JoshStrobl @Solus Well, you kinda convinced me to install Solus now. What do I need to get acostumed to as an Arch user?

@joeligj12 @Solus You may find the lack of a "user repo" to be the biggest downside coming from Arch. But our packaging tooling is IMO not complicated to use, so even if you *have* to compile something (isolated from your host system if you want), it should not be that difficult.

The question really comes down to what do you use your system for. And hey, if Solus doesn't work out for you, that's 100% okay. I'm just glad you'll be giving it a try and hope you take a look down the road.

@JoshStrobl @Solus When can I get a minimal install ISO?
I mean
"sudo eopkg remove -c desktop.budgie"

works quite well, but I'd like to have a minimum viable solus base as an install image and build it up to what I want out of an OS using a script. That way I can have 1 ISO image and not 4 floating around. PLus it'd be nice to be able to setup i3 or xmonad and not have to trim the extra fluff form the system.

@JoshStrobl @Solus I ean I guess I can setup arch, but really I don't like the update pace of arch, the compiling times of gentoo can be a little too much at times, and ubuntu doesn't ship a proper minial iso anymore.

@JoshStrobl @Solus I guess I could just pull the source code for Solus and just build my own ISO, but I'd at least like to have that features on the Solus site if I could. Somehting like a netinstall image with a calamares installer would probably work. At least I dont think calameres is tied specifically to Arch systems.

@10leej @JoshStrobl Stop asking, you're not getting a minimal ISO and we aren't providing the ISO tooling.

@Solus @JoshStrobl Seriously all you have to do is just give me access to tooling and docs on what to do and I'll dedicate my own hardware and time for it. You can even slap a "don't use this" label on it if you want.

@Solus @JoshStrobl I ean this could also reduce the buirden of publishing updated ISO images too, because last release cycle you guys were literally seeing reports of people not getting hardware to work with your distro.
Don't make me fork your distro and do this the hard way, let me work with you to fix the things you guys have had issues with in the past, while allowing me to find a benefit to your distro as payment.

@10leej @Solus @JoshStrobl You're better off just not using Solus tbh. I left Solus for similar reasons. I just went to Fedora. Wasn't worth the fight.

@10leej @Solus @JoshStrobl The only thing I miss about Solus is the packaging tooling. Fedora's suck in my opinion. Was fun updating software in the Solus repos while I was using it.

@tristan957 @Solus @JoshStrobl I guess you're right. Solus serves serves very unique space in the upstream rolling releases and I honestly want to help contribute to it besides packaging.
They've turned down my offers to help publish refreshed ISOs.
Running an official repository mirror.
Packaging XFCE4
Packaging docker
Bug reports
Feature requests (few of which they eventually merged into budgie anyway)
Honestly I'm glad the devs are opinionated tho.

@JoshStrobl @Solus Really interesting article and sad that #gnome is going that way. It has such a nice UX for myself with the overview but adwaita isn't my taste.

After the license desaster early this year with #qt and #kde I was just about to learn #rust + #gtk4 . But with messed up theming I don't want to spend my spare time for that anymore 😥 .

Is there a good guide for #efl out there? I'm a lousy hobbyist programmer after all.

@lerothas @Solus That's a great question. EFL has a bunch of documentation at enlightenment.org/docs/start, I would suggest their tutorials as well (they are really great). enlightenment.org/develop/lega

Stick with "legacy" API over unified API (my understanding is that it isn't on par yet with legacy).

@JoshStrobl @Solus I've noticed over the years that #gnome doesn't have a clear vision of things. You take #nautilus for example and what "is" vs what "was" are two different products. A pineapple vs a apple. It's sad to see them double-down and alienate the broader developer community.

@JoshStrobl @Solus Josh for an EFL terminal app take a look at Terminology if you're not familiar with it. It's a really nice terminal and a great example of an awesome EFL application.

@calvinistmac @Solus Yep, certainly have heard of it. Not sure how much work it would take to introduce some of the improvements we would like to its UX, but we will take a look for sure.

@JoshStrobl @Solus Was very interested to read your blog post. I gave up on GTK a long time ago. Tried EFL after that and didn't find the developers too friendly or open to patches in that project either. I've been trying to switch from C++ to more C programs and finding a decent GUI in C is difficult. I've put together a list of C GUi libraries: lmemsm.dreamwidth.org/8313.htm Hope you'll keep us updated on how the switch to a new GUI turns out.

@lmemsm @Solus That's very surprising. I've had several pleasant conversations with raster, one of the developers of EFL, in their IRC channel. They've been extremely friendly and helpful. Not invalidating your experience of course and it is unfortunate to hear that was your experience, just doesn't mirror mine so far.

@JoshStrobl @lmemsm @Solus I can second this positive experience. I only hanged around for a short while and ended up not participating since their workflow relied on some non-free software, but during that time, everyone was nice and helpful.

@JoshStrobl @Solus "I will certainly need to make a fancier EFL theme before we can seriously ship any software written in EFL."
- Looking forward to it. I always liked Enlightenment and how it can show those eye-candy effects using minimal resources. But didn't like how the default theme looked and the cluttered configuration options. Hope Budgie 11 changes that.

@JoshStrobl @Solus This is both exciting and interesting! I haven’t been following Solus, but EFL has seemed like a neat toolkit that could use more polish and attention, so I’m curious to see where this will go for both of the projects. (There’s also GNUstep, mind you, which is compatible with Cocoa, but its primary language is Objective-C.)

You’ve probably looked around more than I have, but just in case you missed any of these, there’s the Ecrire text editor, Ephoto image viewer, Etui document library and viewer, and the Evisum system monitor, all written with EFL. Perhaps some of them would be a good match for Solus, or make a good starting point?

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