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Privileged 

While I saw my parents do their absolute best in raising their kids, part of coming from a working class family is having to figure out a lot on your own.

You can't go to your parents for academic advice, they've never been to uni. Career advice is based on a labour market that doesn't exist anymore. Investment advice? “Just marry rich.”

Figuring this stuff out on your own is a tiring adventure. And yes these are privileged issues to have to think about. But still, they're there.

re: Privileged 

@Gina

Thank you, these are words I’ve needed my entire life, but failed to put together myself.

Privileged 

@Gina I fully agree with what you say, being myself the son of a childcare assistant and a technical draughtsman. I consider myself fortunate to have been able to pursue higher education.

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@Gina Side-note: and I can't stand people who say they made themselves.

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@AugierLe42e same here, while at the same time higer education was the first place where I really grasped how some people live in entirely different worlds. You can work as hard as you possibly can, doing everything right, but when you sit next to someone who comes from a long line of board members, national politicians and ambassadors, you know the odds aren't going to be in your favor.

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@Gina True that. Felt it too, to a lesser extent, though. They were not coming from lines of politicians and ambassadors, but still came from a bourgeois background (doctors, lawyers, etc.)

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@Gina If you don't mind my asking, what studies have you taken?

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@AugierLe42e I have a bachelors in Political Sciences, which is as useful as a degree in underwater basket weaving. Did a masters in Public Policy for a while and might soon complete a masters in Business Process Management and IT.

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@Gina @AugierLe42e
“a degree in underwater basket weaving”
Hehe, you never know :D

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@panais I'd love to see such a degree created 😍
@Gina Ah yes, political science is mostly full of sons of the bourgeoisie...

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@Gina @AugierLe42e Ouch, I guess Political Science brought you in the most direct contact possible with the children if the elite.

My biology studies brought me in contact mostly with the children if doctors and lawyers and professors. That was quite a different world than the one I came from, even still.

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@Gina Yeah, I noticed something similar. My wife’s parents are not academics and my parents are first gen academics, and it took me forty years to understand what a difference it makes – the kinds of aspirations to start out with are limited by our families’ horizons; only now I’m seeing children of bankers succeed, hear people talking about their yachts and their three day trips to Hong Kong and I realize the world of difference. Class is real. 🙈

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@kensanata right?? I feel so gaslighted (gaslit?) when people say we're all equal and that any dime can become a quarter. Nah man, it really matters where you're born.

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@Gina I think the problem is that our respective societies (don’t know much about the Netherlands) believe in the illusion of a classless, meritocratic society – because we eliminated the communists and “everybody is middle class” or something like that. But the rich simply went into hiding, discreetly. And suddenly when the post war booms we are rediscovering that they are still there and they don’t worry about jobs but only about the size of their bonus.

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@Gina I also think that listening to the sociology podcast Thinking Allowed made me see class issues where I had just never considered it. For example, the common illusion among those well off that they are middle class. Or my illusion that simply because I entered IT as a biologist during the boom I was apparently rich. Hah. I did not know what being rich was all about!

Privileged 

@kensanata @Gina looking at the distribution of wealth in the world is enough to turn anyone communist.

The eight richest people on the planet have as much money as the poorest 3.5 BILLION of the Earth's population. So eight people own half the planet, basically.

Not eighty. Eight.

Jeff Bezos' personal wealth rivals that of many countries entire economies. That's *so* much money.

Privileged 

@kungtotte In all honesty, I think that despite this garbage distribution, communism is not the solution either.
We've seen how communism has worked in the past, which is horribly bad.

Now don't get me wrong, I think the *idea* of communism isn't wrong, I'm all in for that.
It's just that with humans' eternal hunger for power and domination over others... eh...

@finlaydag33k @kungtotte I don't think most humans hunger for power actually. Most of us tend to float to a position on the dominance hierarchy we're comfortable with.

Humans are generally motivated by simple drives: acquire resources, use them to contribute to society in the way you're best capable of, and hope it's good enough to afford you comfortable living and a chance to mate. That's why communism doesn't work: it fails at the first hurdle by redistributing the resources people work for.

@finlaydag33k @kungtotte (usually into the pockets of the people who come up with the idea to redistribute resources)

@swashberry @finlaydag33k yeah, I was thinking of the theoretical kind of communism. Communism on paper if you will; that goes beyond the revolutionary and redistribution stages and don't get stuck with corruption at the top.

In a fully formed communist society, there's not supposed to be a top :) But as you say, getting there is all but impossible given that people are people...

@kungtotte @finlaydag33k Oh yeah, it's a lovely idea on paper, it's just that in reality it kneecaps innovation and pretty much necessitates authoritarianism, which is a shame but what can you do?

Well, I guess you can marry rich, if you're a woman.

@swashberry Well, I don't think power is the right word but you get my drift.
A lot of people just go for their own profits and benefits.
But it also must mean that everyone is on the same page, else (in case of no "distributing authority") people will just yolo it and hog whatever resource they can get their hands on

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@kungtotte Looking at the global decrease of poverty, illiteracy, general increase of wealth, access to clean water, education, and how the world has become better the last 100 years is enough to turn anyone capitalist.

@kungtotte @kensanata @Gina That's called the Pareto distribution. It's an inevitable consequence of a free market. The people who are best at building industries will build the best industries, the people who are best at art will make the best art, and the people who are the best at making money will make the most money. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

The Pareto distribution's famous 80/20 split isn't even a consequence of human interference. It's mirrored in Zipf's law.

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@kungtotte @kensanata @Gina @selea

It’s insane. They can (and probably are) literally shape(ing) governments in their image with “donations” to politicians. Allowing them to make more money they don’t need. There is so much good they could be dong instead.

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@kungtotte @kensanata @Gina Maybe the wealth is measured differently there. You may own a huge part of land, but it will not get counted in your wealth because almost everything you make, you invest. I am not saying that poor people don't exist, but the number seems too shocking to be true, could you link me a source? Because that would mean the average wealth in the income of the less rich half of the world is 157$. But what does this number mean? That they have this much money right now? Or is it all the wealth they have accumulated (money, land...) minus what they have lost? Also money isn't worth the same in every country. You can buy a loaf of bread for a lot less here, than in Canada.

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@paper @kensanata @Gina this is from a report by oxfam. There's really no trickery. The rich *are* that rich, and the poor are that poor.

oxfam.org/en/press-releases/ju

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@kungtotte @kensanata @Gina there seems to be a report on the meaning of those numbers and methodology, I have not yet been able to read it, so I cannot say if their arguments are valid. Of course rich people are too rich and people with less income don't have that much money because of them, but the exact numbers might be different, idk. time.com/money/3675142/oxfam-r

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@paper @kungtotte @kensanata I'd read it first then before commenting on the numbers 😉

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@Gina @kungtotte @kensanata no, I counted the numbers bsed on what I could find online, then @kungtotte told me where they got the numbers and I found a report on that article. :)

re: Privileged 

@Gina @kungtotte @kensanata ok, so here is the article, the one I posted earlier seems to be down? but it used to redirect here: money.com/oxfam-richest-1-weal They are mentioning a similar article from them on the same topic, but it touches the same problems there are in the newer article.

Oxfam’s primary data source, uses so-called net wealth, defined as “marketable value of financial assets plus non-financial assets (principally housing and land) less debts.” By that standard, an American with, say, a high salary and a large mortgage might—if the amount owed on the mortgage is greater than his assets—be counted as less wealthy than a subsistence farmer who doesn’t owe anything.

That's what I was talking about. I don't quite like the article, but it contains some really good points. The Oxfam article presents a lot of data between quotes targeting emotions, which I hate too. Again, I am not trying to defend rich people, but data isn't enough. We also need to know what that data means.

Oxfam's methodology: oxfam.org/en/research/economy-

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@kensanata @Gina
My parents were both working class, my brother and I both worked as engineers, ended up in management.
I have to admit that in retirement I am far better off than I have ever been, but I am far from "Rich".

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@Gina
Een probleem is zo groot als je het ervaart. Wat voor de een een mug is is voor een ander een olifant.

Iedereen heeft recht op zijn eigen problemen en gevoelens daar bij.

@Gina I partly agree from my own experience. It depends on the parent's history and reflexion. True, somehow academics have these attributes ... and of course money plays an important role ... unfortunately.

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@Gina
Being the first in my immediate family to pursue higher education had been a confusing time. I got all the support in the world but with none of the guidance. I did my best to push myself through the difficult situations where my family had never been, while ignoring the temptation to take the easy way out and settle for a career in a food service with my family - no offense to those who work in that demanding workforce, like my mom and brother.

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@nebunez that's is very well said, support without the guidance. And I still feel it to this day.

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@Gina It often piss me of to see fellow students not wanting to plan their further studies (because they don't know what they like or because they don't know how it works) but I remember then that they mostly come from families where higher education is a privilege, and I kinda forgive them/blame myself for thinking that.

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@Elijah__ lol I was clueless until the day I graduated. Took me a year longer too.

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@Gina I think (at least in France where university is free) that it should be more allowed socially speaking to fail a year, or even to change completly your field.
I think some need those extra-years to grow a lil older (and more mature) without having to worry about money.

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@Gina youtu.be/4K5fbQ1-zps I often think about this video when it comes to things like this.

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